MLBUM Reference Help

[Spence]

I copied this from another thread onto a different board that was discussing balks:

Quote:
(b) There is no violation if a pitcher attempts a pick-off at second base and, seeing no fielder covering the bag, throws to the shortstop or second baseman, neither of whom is in the vicinity of the bag nor is making an actual attempt to retire the runner.

Someone has challenged me to come up with a reference to prove I didn't just "make it up."

I'm not an ump. Can someone help me out?

[johnnyg08]

Have they been able to prove that it is a balk? It's not a balk...don't get 'em started...

Whomever is challenging you is the one making stuff up.

[Spence]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Have they been able to prove that it is a balk? It's not a balk...don't get 'em started...

Whomever is challenging you is the one making stuff up.

They are reading a strict definition of "directly to the base" even though I showed them the above. I just need to be able to point them to a section in the guide.

[johnnyg08]

Define "the base"? mlb.com...tell your friend who is wrong to look it up...pdf search will take 20 seconds.

[johnnyg08]

You mean, "stepping" to the base?

[johnnyg08]

8.05c stepping is different from throwing...at least it is where I come from.

(c) The pitcher, while touching his plate, fails to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base;

Rule 8.05(c) Comment: Requires the pitcher, while touching his plate, to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base. If a pitcher turns or spins off of his free foot without actually stepping or if he turns his body and throws before stepping, it is a balk.
A pitcher is to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base but does not require him to throw (except to first base only) because he steps. It is possible, with runners on first and third, for the pitcher to step toward third and not throw, merely to bluff the runner back to third; then seeing the runner on first start for second, turn and step toward and throw to first base. This is legal. However, if, with runners on first and third, the pitcher, while in contact with the rubber, steps toward third and then immediately and in practically the same motion “wheels” and throws to first base, it is obviously an attempt to deceive the runner at first base, and in such a move it is practically impossible to step directly toward first base before the throw to first base, and such a move shall be called a balk. Of course, if the pitcher steps off the rubber and then makes such a move, it is not a balk.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Spence

I copied this from another thread onto a different board that was discussing balks:

Quote:
(b) There is no violation if a pitcher attempts a pick-off at second base and, seeing no fielder covering the bag, throws to the shortstop or second baseman, neither of whom is in the vicinity of the bag nor is making an actual attempt to retire the runner.

Someone has challenged me to come up with a reference to prove I didn't just "make it up."

I'm not an ump. Can someone help me out?

The book is for sale at umpire.org if you want to prove the book exists.

The only way to prove it quote existsd is to find someone with the book or buy one.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Spence

I copied this from another thread onto a different board that was discussing balks:

Quote:
(b) There is no violation if a pitcher attempts a pick-off at second base and, seeing no fielder covering the bag, throws to the shortstop or second baseman, neither of whom is in the vicinity of the bag nor is making an actual attempt to retire the runner.

Someone has challenged me to come up with a reference to prove I didn't just "make it up."

I'm not an ump. Can someone help me out?

The reference is 8.05. Nothing in the balk rule requires F1 to throw to 2B, since he's allowed to feint. If he does not throw directly to 2B, he's not balking. Thus, if he throws to F4 off the base, he's not balking. QED.

MLBUM, J/R, JEA, and every other respected source agrees on this point. FED rule is the same.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Spence

I copied this from another thread onto a different board that was discussing balks:

Quote:
(b) There is no violation if a pitcher attempts a pick-off at second base and, seeing no fielder covering the bag, throws to the shortstop or second baseman, neither of whom is in the vicinity of the bag nor is making an actual attempt to retire the runner.

Someone has challenged me to come up with a reference to prove I didn't just "make it up."

I'm not an ump. Can someone help me out?

The rule only applies at first base, where the pitcher is required to throw to the base from the rubber. F3 has to be able to attempt to retire the runner, or it is a balk.

Since a throw is not required to 2nd or 3rd, it is okay to throw it to F4, F5, or F6, regardless of their position relative to the base.

[tjones1]

Were you watching the Diamondbacks/Cubs game today?

If you were, don't listen to Bob Brenly's "ruling".

And obviously, Lou didn't have a clue either.

[johnnyg08]

Is there a video clip?

[DG]

I don't think this is mentioned in the MLBUM. But it is in JR, JEA, and the Study Guide for College Baseball Rules. The Evans Balk Video actually demonstrates and discusses. FED is silent on the subject as far as I know, but when FED is silent I go with other authoritive opinions from OBR.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Is there a video clip?

There might be but it really wasn't a big deal and the discussion didn't last long.

Here's what happened:

R1, R2. Pitcher throws to F4 who is either caught off guard by the throw or the throw was bad or a little of both. The throw carries F4 towards the bag but he's still a few feet away from the bag. Lou came out and wanted a balk. Bob basically explained the reason it wasn't a balk was because F4 was "leaning" toward the bag and the ball carried him that way.

[johnnyg08]

Interesting explanation...were the miked? I'm not saying your lying, but it doesn't seem to match the rule they way you're retelling it. What am I missing?

[DG]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Interesting explanation...were the miked? I'm not saying your lying, but it doesn't seem to match the rule they way you're retelling it. What am I missing?

The "interpretation" of this is that throwing directly to the base, or to the fielder who is close enough to make a play, only applies to 1B. It does not apply to 2nd or 3rd, so a pitcher can turn and throw to F4 deep in the outfield grass and it is not a balk.

Further research, I found same ruling in PBUC also, but is not in MLBUM that I can find.