Mlbum 5-4(1)

[SAump]

I may be a DORK for bringing up 72 hours later.
But the 2 plays are IDENTICAL and I am only a DORK for KNOWING it.

I don't see any inference or requirement to tag anyone scrambling back to reach HP.
Add the fact that there is no inadvertant appeal in baseball {J/R, KP, pg 16}.
Add to that major rule difference between Pro and NCAA 8-6-4 statute.
Add some freaking ASA rules to that.

And if I am still WRONG, then it is only because the 2 plays are so close in nature, I thought it was worth my time to bring it back up AGAIN to try to find a clue.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SAump

And if I am still WRONG, then it is only because the 2 plays are so close in nature, I thought it was worth my time to bring it back up AGAIN to try to find a clue why I still don't get it.

I assume the play to which you refer in the MLBUM is this:

Runner on first, one out. The batter doubles. Runner on first rounds the bases and tries for
home. On the play at the plate, the catcher misses the tag and runner misses the plate in
sliding by. As the catcher begins to chase the runner to apply a tag, the batter-runner tries
for third base. Seeing this, the catcher throws to the third baseman, who retires the batterrunner.
May the defensive team still appeal at home on the runner originally on first?
Ruling: Yes. The catcher's play on the batter-runner at third base was still part of the
continuous action created by and following the batted ball. Therefore, the defensive team
would not lose its rights to make an appeal by playing on the runner at home or the batterrunner
at third and may still appeal at home.

Note that in the MLBUM play, the runenr never attempted to return to the plate. He slid by and continued to the dugout.

In the play in the now closed thread, there was no play at third. All the action happened near the plate. Also, in part A of the OP, the runner attempted to come back to touch the plate.

So, while the plays start out the same (runner misses home while F2 misses tag), the later action, and the question they are attempting to address are different.

What you want to read to answer the OP is MLBUM section 5.3 -- note that the first part of 5.3 is part (b) of the op; the second part of 5.3 is part (a) of the OP. I've bolded the relevant ruling.


5.3 RUNNER MISSES HOME PLATE
Should a runner, in scoring, fail to touch home plate and continue on his way to the bench
(making no effort to return), he may be put out by the fielder touching home plate and appealing
to the umpire for a decision. However, this rule applies only where a runner is on his way to the
bench and the catcher would be required to chase the runner. It does not apply to the ordinary
play where the runner misses the plate and then immediately makes an effort to touch the plate
before being tagged. In that case, the runner must be tagged. In such cases, base path rules still
apply to the runner (i.e., he may not run more than three feet from the "baseline" between him
and home plate).

[greymule]

In that first MLBUM play, what if, after the third baseman retires the BR for the third out, the catcher yells for the ball to appeal the miss of home while the runner who missed the plate is scrambling back to touch it.

Can the runner correct his miss after 3 out? If he touches the plate before F2 gets the ball, does his run count? I know that this question has come up on this board, and as I remember, the answer was that the runner could not correct his error after 3 outs, though the defense could still appeal.

However, if the runner cannot correct an error after 3 out, then whether he is scrambling back or walking toward the dugout is irrelevant. So I'm still confused.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by greymule

Can the runner correct his miss after 3 out?

I read on Rob Drake's site that he asked Jim Evans this and Evans said that runners are NOT allowed to correct base running mistakes after the 3rd out.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by bossman72

I read on Rob Drake's site that he asked Jim Evans this and Evans said that runners are NOT allowed to correct base running mistakes after the 3rd out.

yes that is correct....

[greymule]

That's what I thought. Therefore, once there are 3 outs, it doesn't matter whether the runner is walking toward the dugout or scrambling back to touch the plate. The defense can still appeal, even after the runner touches the base he missed.

If at the time of the third out the runner was scrambling back toward to plate in an obvious attempt to correct a miss, is an appeal still necessary? Several decades ago, I was that very runner, and the ump (with no appeal by the defense) disallowed my run.