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I may be a DORK for bringing up 72 hours later.
But the 2 plays are IDENTICAL and I am only a DORK for KNOWING it. I don't see any inference or requirement to tag anyone scrambling back to reach HP. Add the fact that there is no inadvertant appeal in baseball {J/R, KP, pg 16}. Add to that major rule difference between Pro and NCAA 8-6-4 statute. Add some freaking ASA rules to that. And if I am still WRONG, then it is only because the 2 plays are so close in nature, I thought it was worth my time to bring it back up AGAIN to try to find a clue.
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SAump ![]() Last edited by SAump; Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 07:18pm. |
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Quote:
Runner on first, one out. The batter doubles. Runner on first rounds the bases and tries for home. On the play at the plate, the catcher misses the tag and runner misses the plate in sliding by. As the catcher begins to chase the runner to apply a tag, the batter-runner tries for third base. Seeing this, the catcher throws to the third baseman, who retires the batterrunner. May the defensive team still appeal at home on the runner originally on first? Ruling: Yes. The catcher's play on the batter-runner at third base was still part of the continuous action created by and following the batted ball. Therefore, the defensive team would not lose its rights to make an appeal by playing on the runner at home or the batterrunner at third and may still appeal at home. Note that in the MLBUM play, the runenr never attempted to return to the plate. He slid by and continued to the dugout. In the play in the now closed thread, there was no play at third. All the action happened near the plate. Also, in part A of the OP, the runner attempted to come back to touch the plate. So, while the plays start out the same (runner misses home while F2 misses tag), the later action, and the question they are attempting to address are different. What you want to read to answer the OP is MLBUM section 5.3 -- note that the first part of 5.3 is part (b) of the op; the second part of 5.3 is part (a) of the OP. I've bolded the relevant ruling. 5.3 RUNNER MISSES HOME PLATE Should a runner, in scoring, fail to touch home plate and continue on his way to the bench (making no effort to return), he may be put out by the fielder touching home plate and appealing to the umpire for a decision. However, this rule applies only where a runner is on his way to the bench and the catcher would be required to chase the runner. It does not apply to the ordinary play where the runner misses the plate and then immediately makes an effort to touch the plate before being tagged. In that case, the runner must be tagged. In such cases, base path rules still apply to the runner (i.e., he may not run more than three feet from the "baseline" between him and home plate). |
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In that first MLBUM play, what if, after the third baseman retires the BR for the third out, the catcher yells for the ball to appeal the miss of home while the runner who missed the plate is scrambling back to touch it.
Can the runner correct his miss after 3 out? If he touches the plate before F2 gets the ball, does his run count? I know that this question has come up on this board, and as I remember, the answer was that the runner could not correct his error after 3 outs, though the defense could still appeal. However, if the runner cannot correct an error after 3 out, then whether he is scrambling back or walking toward the dugout is irrelevant. So I'm still confused.
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greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide! |
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I read on Rob Drake's site that he asked Jim Evans this and Evans said that runners are NOT allowed to correct base running mistakes after the 3rd out.
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yes that is correct....
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"My greatest fear is that when I die, my wife will sell my golf clubs for what I told her I paid for them." |
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That's what I thought. Therefore, once there are 3 outs, it doesn't matter whether the runner is walking toward the dugout or scrambling back to touch the plate. The defense can still appeal, even after the runner touches the base he missed.
If at the time of the third out the runner was scrambling back toward to plate in an obvious attempt to correct a miss, is an appeal still necessary? Several decades ago, I was that very runner, and the ump (with no appeal by the defense) disallowed my run.
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greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide! |
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Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
MLBUM | LeftyRef | Baseball | 15 | Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:05pm |
MLBUM | greymule | Baseball | 1 | Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:19pm |