Interesting Situation

[tarheelcoach]

Baseball 'Gimmick' Play

First off, I seriously doubt that the runner on 2nd came up with this on his own. That said, I live and work in games in this area, and I can just see other coaches attempting this now, so a couple of questions -

1) Once the throw went to 1st, shouldn't the home plate umpire moved into position to pick up that runner coming to third? While it may be a little late to get the actual touch if the runner was moving on the pitch, he certainly would be able to tell if the miss was blatant.
2.) What do you do if you see this? As this article says, its hard to tell who intended to do what, so I would have a hard time ejecting anyone for this. I guess we just have to treat it as you would any missed base, even with this article being the talk of the baseball town.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Mxyzptlk

The play was all too common when NFHS rules required the umpires to initiate and call outs on missed bases. Pre-2000? There was no protest allowed.

Very difficult to determine the sequencing withut having seen it but once the PU has resolved the incoming runner, he should choose to observe the runner approaching third if for no other reason than OBS.

Others mechanics may differ.

The play was all too common when NFHS rules required the umpires to initiate and call outs on missed bases.

You're actually better off doing it when it is NOT an auto call by the umpire because then, in addition to the umpire seeing it, it needs to be seen by the defense and they need to properly appeal it.

Pre-2000?

Nope.


There was no protest allowed.

Not relevant.


Thank you for playing.

[pastordoug]

Had this tried on me this year and was really surprised that a coach would encourage such paly..... But when a coach, even in HS, gets paid to win I guess I really shouldn't be surprised.

I was 1st base extended (but cheating towards 3rd base line) and was able to see the runner missing 3rd due to the bunt being mishandled. If there would have been a play at the plate I am not sure I would have seen the missed 3rd base?

[Tim C]

kltpzyxM:

There I have said it: please disappear.

You have not made one single post that is relevant and your reason for posting here is clear.

BACK TO YOUR DIMENSION!!!!

~Sigh~

I hate trolls.

t

[Kevin Finnerty]

It is likely that R3 scored before R2 reached, or was due to reach third. Therefore, it is absolutely the PU's responsibility to observe the touch at third and the OBS possibility. Good grief, when a squeeze goes to first, the touch of home is all the PU has to do, so the touch at third is an easy thing to switch his focus to.

[GA Umpire]

HTBT to see the timing of everything. But, PU should be able to catch it once the fielder throws the ball to 1B. He knows there is no play on R3 and just needs to glance at him when he is about to touch the plate.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

The link in the OP does not open. Would someone please give a written description of the play being discussed? Thank you.

MTD, Sr.

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The link in the OP does not open. Would someone please give a written description of the play being discussed? Thank you.

MTD, Sr.

Here it is.

High school baseball umpires can only rely on the honesty and integrity of coaches and players to avoid being tricked by a baserunning gimmick apparently used in a game between Fayetteville Academy and Harrells Christian Academy on March 25.

The play occurred in a suicide squeeze bunt situation and took advantage of the fact that there are only two officials at most high school baseball games, the plate umpire and the base umpire.

According to Chip Bishop, athletic director at Fayetteville Academy, the Eagles had runners on second and third base against Harrells with less than two out. A Fayetteville Academy batter laid down a suicide squeeze bunt to score the runner from third base.

While the plate umpire was occupied with the runner coming home, and the field umpire was watching the throw to try and get the runner at first base, the runner on second base left the bag and missed touching third base, cutting the corner at third by a considerable amount to decrease the distance he had to run from second to home.

Bishop said the Academy conducted an investigation into the play and concluded it was not clear if the play was deliberately called and practiced by the Academy baseball team or if the player running from second had heard about the play before and decided to try it in this situation.

"There were different versions and we just never came to a conclusion on what transpired," Bishop said.

However, Bishop said the Academy administration, coaching staff, players and parents agreed the school would not repeat the play in future games.

"We've made it clear whether it's a called play or someone making the decision on their own, Fayetteville Academy will never do that again,'' he said.

"We know there are a lot of different types of plays in baseball where deception is used and maybe rules are broken, but we feel anytime you decide beforehand you are going to run a play and a rule is going to be broken, that is crossing the line.''

Neil Buie is the booking agent for high school baseball and softball officials in this area, and he booked the officials for the Fayetteville Academy-Harrells game.

Buie first heard about the incident from his officials and then later spoke with Bishop. Buie said there was no question the play is cheating because it's designed to break the rules.

"If a kid on his own had decided to round third base, that's one thing,'' Buie said, "but having a designed play taught that way is not right.''

Buie said it's impossible for a regular two-man umpiring crew to watch third base in the squeeze play situation that took place in the Fayetteville Academy game.

"The only way to make sure you get that call right is to get another official,'' Buie said. "We have to have three officials to get that call correct.''

Buie said a player could cut across the pitcher's mound going to third, but if neither umpire sees him because they are distracted by having to watch other bases, they can only assume the runner tagged the bases in order. "That's why this play was designed,'' he said.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE=tarheelcoach;672581]

Baseball 'Gimmick' Play

Here is my MAIN problem with the article

The only way to make sure you get that call right is to get another official,'' Buie said. "We have to have three officials to get that call correct.''

IMO, the aforementioned is a cop-out answer.

This was bad mechanics on the part of this umpiring crew.

We had a sqeeze play and a throw to first base.

If the PU is on 1BLX where he should be, he can watch R3 touch the plate and also watch R2 touch third base.

If the throw did come to the plate, then the BU can take a quick glance to see that the BR touched first base and then pick up R2 going to third base.

Yes 3 person helps, but if the umpires were doing their job the team could not "cheat"

How this most likely came about

Trust asure coaches DO WATCH umpires. Perhaps in a previous game or previous years, etc. this coach noticed that this umpiring crew did not WATCH the runners touch the bases. He might have appealed an opposing player missing a base in which he KNEW the base was missed but the umpires signalled safe meaning they were NOT watching the touches, hence he "stored it in his memory banks"

Hey I kicked calls before and also blown my mechanic BUT I admitted it. No sense blaming it on someone else for my mistake. That is part of umpiring. We are NOT perfect and we "live and learn"

In a nutshell I am surprised this particular umpire association did not take umbrage with We have to have three officials to get that call correct.

Hey fellows hate to break it to you but in this climate you are NOT getting 3 so take a refresher coarse on the 2 person mechanics.

Pete Booth

[justanotherblue]

Do I believe this is spontaneous, no way, it most likely is a taught play on part of the coaching staff. As Peter mentioned, the coaching staff noticed either before or most likely during the game that the HP umpire wasn't watching the touches at 3B. I also agree, should have been seen by the crew, they booted it, hopefully, they'll get it next time. It would be my guess the only reason the coaching staff said it wouldn't happen again is his parents complained about the cheating tactics he's teaching their kids.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

Here it is.

GA:

Thanks for the quick response. Now I know what is going on in this thread, even though my wife says I never know what is going on, .

MTD, Sr.

[Umpmazza]

I will answer this with 3 words..


HEAD ON SWIVEL

[celebur]

Originally Posted by justanotherblue

I also agree, should have been seen by the crew, they booted it, hopefully, they'll get it next time. It would be my guess the only reason the coaching staff said it wouldn't happen again is his parents complained about the cheating tactics he's teaching their kids.

Or it could be the coach is trying to lull the officials. If he gains a rep for using this, then the officials would likely be more diligent in looking for it.

[btdt]

I read the article twice to be sure. I read no where that there was an appeal at third for a missed base. From what I read (just in case I missed the part about appeal), no appeal, no missed call. Play on.

[DG]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;672628]

Originally Posted by tarheelcoach

Hey fellows hate to break it to you but in this climate you are NOT getting 3 so take a refresher coarse on the 2 person mechanics.

Pete Booth

Easy to get 3, if they will just agree to 2/3 normal 2 man pay or each in a 3 man crew. I'm sure the schools would go for that. I expect umpires would never make that comment again, if they thought this might happen.