NFHS Only (please)

[Tim C]

You are the UIC.

At the plate conference you take the line-up card from the visiting team.

As you review it you find that the Head Coach has listed the DH in the 10th spot in the line-up with an arrow drawn up to another player in the batting order.

What do you do?

T

[DG]

Make sure that the Visiting Coach's intentions are correct, as I understand it, and the Home team coach also understands. When we all agree we can move on to rest of plate meeting.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Tim C

You are the UIC.

At the plate conference you take the line-up card from the visiting team.

As you review it you find that the Head Coach has listed the DH in the 10th spot in the line-up with an arrow drawn up to another player in the batting order.

What do you do?

T

Confirm with the HC who the DH is batting for, then cross him off in the ten spot and write him in on the same line as the player for whom he is batting and with whom he is locked in the order.

[pastordoug]

When I get a line-up card the first thing I do is count each starting player with both coaches listening. When I find 10 instead of 9 I would confirm to the coach, " so... is DH for ....?" He replies and we are set....

[bob jenkins]

Agree with the above (unless Tee is looking for the specific mechanic of noting it on the line-up card). It's the same think I'd do in all codes.

[David B]

Originally Posted by pastordoug

When I get a line-up card the first thing I do is count each starting player with both coaches listening. When I find 10 instead of 9 I would confirm to the coach, " so... is DH for ....?" He replies and we are set....

Just what I like to do. Sometimes I might tell the coach its easier if you would list the DH in the lineup right below the player for whom he is batting, but that just depends.

Thanks
David

[UmpJM]

As others have said, I would clarify with the head coach which player was batting and which was fielding, and I always say "in the X hole". He verifies, I annotate.

It would not occur to me to have the coach "redo" or "correct" his lineup due to this (i.e., unorthodox placement of the DH), nor would I mention it to him.

There is no rule that specifies "how" the lineup card is to be filled out. I understand that Tim has helped establish a standard in Oregon that may have the effect of "rule" there.

Where I work that is not the case. And this is the last thing I want to get "pissy" about at the plate conference.

JM

[Tim C]

There is an NFHS of where the DH should be listed. Also there is not a rule that says "use arrows".

T

[UmpJM]

Tim,

Reference?

JM

[David B]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

As others have said, I would clarify with the head coach which player was batting and which was fielding, and I always say "in the X hole". He verifies, I annotate.

It would not occur to me to have the coach "redo" or "correct" his lineup due to this (i.e., unorthodox placement of the DH), nor would I mention it to him.

There is no rule that specifies "how" the lineup card is to be filled out. I understand that Tim has helped establish a standard in Oregon that may have the effect of "rule" there.

Where I work that is not the case. And this is the last thing I want to get "pissy" about at the plate conference.

JM

Coach JM,

I may be wrong, but if I remember several years back there was a POI or something that suggested the coaches put the DH in the correct place which should be under the player being DH'd for, but I kind of looked and did not find anything.

This was FED only, but i remember that our association made a big deal for a couple of years trying to get coaches to do it right.

Needless to say, most of them never changed anything.

But the main thing is to know who is being DH'd for and of course the reminder several times a year that the DH is just like a starter and can be subbed out etc.,

I don't consider anything that I do at the plate conf "pissy" though, just a "point of information" (g)

Thanks
David

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE=UmpJM (nee CoachJM);671793]

As others have said, I would clarify with the head coach which player was batting and which was fielding, and I always say "in the X hole". He verifies, I annotate.

It would not occur to me to have the coach "redo" or "correct" his lineup due to this (i.e., unorthodox placement of the DH), nor would I mention it to him.

There is no rule that specifies "how" the lineup card is to be filled out. I understand that Tim has helped establish a standard in Oregon that may have the effect of "rule" there.

Where I work that is not the case. And this is the last thing I want to get "pissy" about at the plate conference.

JM nothing to do with being "pissy"

You get those games where the coach is making multiple changes. Now you have "arrows" all over the line-up card and an ineligable player or BOO question arises and now you have to figure out which arrow goes where.

It's much easier to have the DH right below the player he is batting for so there is NO confusion ESPECIALLY with multiple changes. When the DH is subbed you simply have the coach insert the new player where the DH was and so on an so forth.

If the DH is listed 10th and then subbed for you now have a "new arrow" to deal with. then there is re-entry etc. etc.

There should be no "guess" work when it comes to the line-up and IMO it's not being "pissy" when you tell the coach to put the DH below the player he is batting for. It takes all of 1 or 2 minutes if that. Also, the opposing coach wants to receive a line-up with no questions either.

REAL answer as with many of these type OP's. Discuss at one's local umpire association so that ALL umpires are on the same page.

What you don't want which pisses the coaches off is for say Tee or me to go to a game, ask the coach to insert the DH underneath the player he is batting for and the coach say "Pete you are the first umpire who has mentioned this to me all year"

Pete Booth

[Tim C]

JM:

Rather than just state my opinion I have requested that our SRI write a bulletin to all Baseball Commissioners in the state and correct the issue.

I doubt if I was ever called "pissy" by anyone for my umpire style (actually I was pretty much a 'fly by the seat of my pants guy') I really think that doing any little thing you can to make your game go easier.

If I can correct this issue before the game I will never have to worry on the rainy, windy, crummy Oregon day when a coaches wants to make multiple subsitituitons.

BTW, there is printed documentation SOMEWHERE that says how a line-up card is to be filled out for an NFHS rules based game.

Regards,

Tim

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Not sure what type/style of line-up cards everyone is used to seeing ... I have seen several styles but lately have not seen any with unnumbered spots below.

In general, the first nine lines on the card are the batters. One of those would be the DH, if one is being used. The person playing defense and not batting is generally listed in the tenth spot.

From T's description, the coach has listed his DH incorrectly and used an arrow in an attempt to alleviate the error. (To designate a DH and use someone else to play defense was likely an afterthought on the coach's part.)

I'm not going to get too worried about it and I'm not going to ask the coach to redo his line up for my benefit - I can follow his documentation error.

I will ensure that the other coach understands the batting order and I will ensure the home team book has the order listed as we discussed at the pregame meeting.

It has been awhile since I have been here but it is good to see some of the old names still keeping us rookies straight... Hello to all you old farts! Especially you Tim.

[pastordoug]

Again, just for me I have no problem with the arrow.... Around here we a lucky to see a "real" line-up card anyway. It would take longer to try and change the card so I just make sure who is the DH and for who.... Let's Play!
When a change comes in I have my own shorthand that works every time...

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE=DownTownTonyBrown;671923]

Not sure what type/style of line-up cards everyone is used to seeing ... I have seen several styles but lately have not seen any with unnumbered spots below.

In general, the first nine lines on the card are the batters. One of those would be the DH, if one is being used. The person playing defense and not batting is generally listed in the tenth spot.

From T's description, the coach has listed his DH incorrectly and used an arrow in an attempt to alleviate the error. (To designate a DH and use someone else to play defense was likely an afterthought on the coach's part

.)

here's the MAIN problem using arrows.

9 are listed on the line-up and the 10th player is the DH. Assume DH is batting for F1. Coach draws arrow. Now in the later innings F1 bats for himself meaning the ROLE of the DH is done but the DH still has Re-entry privaleges.

The original DH now replaces F1 and comes into pitch the next inning.

You now have a line-up card that looks like a color by number book that the kids use when learning how to draw.

Hey if you can follow that more power to you but it's much easier to use the "conventional method" of inserting the DH right under the player whom is batting for. That way when changes are made you simply cross out and insert vs. a Picaso painiting

Pete Booth