NFHS RLV You Make the Call

[Tim C]

OK, so here we go:

"With the bases loaded,R1,R2,R3 and no outs, the batter, B4 hits a ground ball to the shortstop. In each situation the throw from the short stop goes to the catcher.

"Situation 1). The throw to the catcher forces R1 the first out. The catcher then throws the ball to first base. The throw hits B4 running outside the running lane. What is your ruling and where do you place the runners?

"Situation 2). R1 is safe at home, the catcher then throws to first base and the the throw is interfered with by B4 running outside the running lane. What is your ruling and where do you place the runners?

"Situation 3). R1 is out at the plate. The catchers throw to first base sails into short right field. The right fielder picks up the ball and throws to the plate to retire R2, who is attempting to score from second base on the over throw at first base. The plate umpire ruled the batter runner interfered with the throw from the catcher. Is this a triple play? Who is out? Where do we place runners?"

[bob jenkins]

For all the plays: The play at the plate stands, BR is out, other runners return to TOI.

[Tim C]

Read more carefully.

TC

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

For all the plays: The play at the plate stands, BR is out, other runners return to TOI.

+1

Sit. 1: The runner from third is out on the force play at home; B4 is out for running lane interference. 8-4-1g is restricted only to the ball "being fielded or thrown to first base" (whatever "fielded to first base" would mean). I would leave runners at 2B and 3B on the play, unless my partner or I saw that the runners had NOT achieved their advance base at TOI.

In short: what Bob said.

Sit. 2: Runner is safe on the play at home; B4 is out for garden-variety running-lane interference.

Sit. 3: The play at the plate stands. If the umpire rules that B4 interfered by being out of the running lane, B4 is out, the ball is dead immediately, and other runners return to their TOI bases. If the umpires didn't kill it immediately upon the interference, they should have, and in any case it's dead anyway. Send the runners back.

In short: I don't see how reading more carefully would lead to a conclusion different from Bob's.

[UmpTTS43]

I can't recall if FED adopts the "intervening play" philosophy. I am thinking they do not. If that is the case, when it is determined that the BR interfered with the play at first, the ball is immediately dead, BR is out, and runners return to positions at TOP. If R1 (assuming R3) is out, that out would stand.

If they do accept the "intervening play" philosophy, again immediate dead ball at time of INT, BR out, and runners placed at time of INT.

[mbyron]

OBR 6.05k uses the expression "fielded to first base," which is probably the basis for the idea that an "intervening play" negates running-lane interference.

FED 8-4-1g uses the expression "fielded or thrown to first base," which suggests that an intervening play would not relieve the BR of his obligation to run in the running lane.

[Tim C]

I apologize: I "misremembered" Bob's answer!

"Ruling for Situation 1). R1 is out and B4 is out for interference. Two out. Since there was a preceding play, the placement of the runners is critical. All runners will return to the base occupied at the time of the catchers throw. If B2 and B3 have advanced to the next base safely prior to the catcher's throw they will be placed at second and third bases. If they have not advanced to the next base they will be returned to first and second base, those bases last legally occupied at the time of the throw. Rules 8-4-1g and 5-1-1e.

"Ruling for Situation 2). B4 is out for interference. Runners are returned to the base legally occupied at time of the infraction. Rules 8-4-2g and 5-1-1e. Count the run.

"Ruling for situation 3). R1 is out, B4 is out for interference. No triple play. The ball is dead immediately when B4 interferes with the catchers throw. Place R2 and R1 as you would in situation 1. Rules 8-4-1g and 5-1-1e."

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by mbyron

OBR 6.05k uses the expression "fielded to first base," which is probably the basis for the idea that an "intervening play" negates running-lane interference.

FED 8-4-1g uses the expression "fielded or thrown to first base," which suggests that an intervening play would not relieve the BR of his obligation to run in the running lane.

In OBR, although there is an "intervening play," that does not relieve the BR of his obligation to obey the running lane rules. If it is determined that the BR hindered F3's ability to receive the throw while being out of the lane, he is still subject to being called out for INT.

In FED, the same is true except that INT can be called if the BR interfered with the throw or the act of fielding the throw.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbyron

OBR 6.05k uses the expression "fielded to first base," which is probably the basis for the idea that an "intervening play" negates running-lane interference.

The "intervening play" does not negate running lane interference. It only means that runners return TOI instead of TOP.

In FED, runners always return TOI, with the exception of FPSR.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The "intervening play" does not negate running lane interference. It only means that runners return TOI instead of TOP.

Right. I knew that. Duh me.

[UmpTTS43]

So does FED use the intervening play philosophy, or all all runners returned if R3 is safe?

[UmpJM]

UmpTT,

I guess you could say FED uses the "intervening play" philosophy because in all three sitches in Tim's OP, the play at the plate "stands" and any remaining runners are returned to their TOI (rather than TOP) bases.

But FED doesn't really need the "intervening play" concept because the "default" rule in FED is that on interference, runners return to their TOI base, not their TOP base.

For example....

R1, no outs. R1 is stealing on the pitch and the batter hits a "swinging bunt" out in front of home plate. As the catcher fields the ball and begins to throw, the R1 has already reached 2B. The BR, running in fair territory the whole way, is hit by the catcher's throw and the ball dribbles into the 1B dugout on the ricochet.

In OBR, the BR is out for the RL interference and the R1 returns to 1B.

In FED, the BR is out for RL interference and the R1 gets to stay at 2B.

No, really.

And, if you think THAT'S strange, brand new for 2010, there's a FED interp that says you award a runner a base BEYOND that he legally occupied at TOI when his runner teammate interferes.

JM

[UmpTTS43]

Thanks JM

[jkumpire]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

UmpTT,

I guess you could say FED uses the "intervening play" philosophy because in all three sitches in Tim's OP, the play at the plate "stands" and any remaining runners are returned to their TOI (rather than TOP) bases.

But FED doesn't really need the "intervening play" concept because the "default" rule in FED is that on interference, runners return to their TOI base, not their TOP base.

For example....

R1, no outs. R1 is stealing on the pitch and the batter hits a "swinging bunt" out in front of home plate. As the catcher fields the ball and begins to throw, the R1 has already reached 2B. The BR, running in fair territory the whole way, is hit by the catcher's throw and the ball dribbles into the 1B dugout on the ricochet.

In OBR, the BR is out for the RL interference and the R1 returns to 1B.

In FED, the BR is out for RL interference and the R1 gets to stay at 2B.

No, really.

And, if you think THAT'S strange, brand new for 2010, there's a FED interp that says you award a runner a base BEYOND that he legally occupied at TOI when his runner teammate interferes.

JM

JM,

Can you give me the reference for this interp you speak about in the last sentence?

Thanks!

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE=UmpJM (nee CoachJM);670022]UmpTT,

I guess you could say FED uses the "intervening play" philosophy because in all three sitches in Tim's OP, the play at the plate "stands" and any remaining runners are returned to their TOI (rather than TOP) bases.

But FED doesn't really need the "intervening play" concept because the "default" rule in FED is that on interference, runners return to their TOI base, not their TOP base.

Not all Interference in FED is from TOI. The EXCEPTION as Bob pointed out is the FPSR.

Example:

R1/R2 - hit an run. Ground ball to F6 who throws to F4 to start the 6-4-3 DP. When F4 receives the throw from F6, R2 is already on third at this point(it was a Hit/Run sitch), R1 slides illegally into second base.

The call is

1. TIME
2. that's interference
3. R1 and B1 are out
4. R2 (now R3) is returned to second base.

Therefore, even though R2 had reached 3rd base at TOI because it was a FPSR violation he returns to his TOP base.

Pete Booth