Strike/out signal

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Rita C

One of the critiques he got from the high school observer today is that his
strike and out signal are too much alike.

Is this a valid critique?

Rita

Our association suggests that new umpires use the hammer. When I evaluate them and I see that the strike is very similar to their out signal, I usually suggest that they make a slight change. I suggest that the strike hammer be exaggerated more, bending the elbow from 90° to around 45°. then make the out signal (for the PU only) a little higher. this eliminates the similarities between the two and is very easy for the new umpire to change.

[bniu]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I don't think it matters an iota how you call strikes, provided your timing is good enough to know that something odd isn't going to happen when you turn your head to the side.

For most young umpires, this is a problem. I find it useful to teach the hammer to young umpires for this reason. As they get experience and develop solid timing and awareness, then they can feel free to do whatever they want.

this is one of the beauties of baseball that i like, no one cares how you make your call as long as you can still be aware of what's going on and not be too much of the next ron luciano. i guess softball likes the hammer since the field is smaller and plays happen quicker, but most softball umpires make calls way too fast for my taste, and yet, the 60 foot version of baseball sees many umpires calling it the same style as the 90 foot game...slow and relaxed on routine calls, makes your sell outs more effective...

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by bniu

this is one of the beauties of baseball that i like, no one cares how you make your call as long as you can still be aware of what's going on and not be too much of the next ron luciano. i guess softball likes the hammer since the field is smaller and plays happen quicker, but most softball umpires make calls way too fast for my taste, and yet, the 60 foot version of baseball sees many umpires calling it the same style as the 90 foot game...slow and relaxed on routine calls, makes your sell outs more effective...

Really?? Just how in the heck did you come to that conclusion? You've never seen or worked with a baseball umpire with poor timing who makes their calls too quick? And I guess that if you happen to be an umpire who does both baseball and softball, your timing disappears when you step on a softball field.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by mbyron

In a word, no.

+1.
Rita....nice job working with a young umpire and in making some suggestions based on the fact that they'll be working a lot of games solo.

On the "hammer/out signal" debate. I'd be curious to hear from any recent pro school or MLB camp attendees as to what they were taught regarding the hammer; and what if anything did the instructors have to say about a hammer strike call looking too much like an out call.

[JJ]

I point strikes and hammer outs. When I point strikes I do not turn my head away from "forward". Done it for years, and nobody has ever questioned if I was calling a strike or banging an out. Makes it really obvious on that swinging strike three in the dirt where the catcher tags the batter out.

JJ

[Forest Ump]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I don't think it matters an iota how you call strikes, provided your timing is good enough to know that something odd isn't going to happen when you turn your head to the side.

+1. Exactly. If your timing is right, you want miss anything. Just don't turn your head with runners on. It's easy to do if your head is in the game.

[pastordoug]

IMO the only problem I might possible see for someone who does the hammer for strikes and outs (which I have been doing for 6 years) is a 3rd stike foul tip... But even then your first signal is the FT followed by , in my case, the hammer for the out...

Otherwise the hammer strike is used with the verbal called "strike" which is clearly different from the called "third stike out" (or should be). Although I seem to remember a MLB Ump who had the same signal for all 3 strikes?

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Mxyzptlk

It's inconsequential in a world of officiating that has so many, more important issues.

The only inconsequential thing in this thread is your post. Begone, Troll!

[David B]

Originally Posted by Rita C

A young man who will be umpiring with my league is also working games for the
local high school association. I worked with him some on signals and pivot
yesterday. For his strike signal he had a point to the side. Since he was
turning his head to follow the point, and since he will be doing a lot of games
solo in that association, I suggested that he do a hammer signal for strike to
break the habit of looking to the side. So this means he has a hammer for
strike and out.

One of the critiques he got from the high school observer today is that his
strike and out signal are too much alike.

Is this a valid critique?

Rita

To each his own as long as it works. I have looked to the side for my entire career with no problems.

Had college guys try and correct, but I never could get them to give me a valid reason why to change.

If there is a reason to be looking at the ball, I'm looking. If its a problem, the umpire will find out because coaches will be questioning it.

Thanks
David

[justanotherblue]

With no runners on, I usually turn my head and point, keeping my eyes on the batter. With runners on, especially with a runner on third, I try to keep my head forward and/or look at the runner on 3B as I point. If it's a DK3, I point the strike, then give the safe signal. If the batter swung at the pitch, and it's caught, I simply hammer him out. Personally, I like the point for my strike call, and the hammer for my out call, there's no confusion IMHO that way. However YMMV.