Differences in strike signal

[viperman]

On the NGB thread there was mention of a difference in the strike signal between college and ASA. One respected person posted that he has been using the same exact signal for both for many years (as I have) and believes there is no difference; most softball umpires that work both codes think the same.

I agree with you that we should have exactly the same strike signal for all fast-pitch softball. But, believe it or not, there is a slight difference. And if you umpire in an area where the UICs of certain organizations watch very carefully to ensure you are not using the "other" signal during their tournament, you will be told there is a difference.

The difference between the college and ASA strike signal is very slight. Here it is:
Strike signal
ASA –right hand (closed fist) and arm out to the side of the body and up to a 90o angle, forward enough to see your elbow with peripheral vision (222)
NFHS – same as ASA (73)
NCAA – right arm extended straight up with an open palm, then brought slightly forward while clenching the hand into a fist (269)

(I have started to put together a "Mechanics Differences" between ASA, NCAA and NFHS, similar to my Rules Differences document. I have taken the above from that section in my still-incomplete Mechanics Differences document. The numbers refer to the page number in the respective manuals - 2010 for NFHS and NCAA(CCA Manual), 2009 for ASA as I have not received the 2010 ASA Umpire Manual).

I know...WOW...what's the difference...as I said, very slight. And most of the time nobody will notice or say anything! There are some college umpires who incorrectly move their entire hand/arm too far forward toward the pitcher instead of just "slightly" and this is where, I believe, the ASA people have an issue.

In ASA you make the fist as you are raising you hand; in NCAA you raise your hand with an open palm until extended straight up, then bring it slightly forward while clenching the hand into a fist. And in NCAA the arm ends up slightly more forward than ASA (but not too far forward, as mentioned above).

I am actually sorry that I have to go into this detail, because it is ridiculous that there is a difference and some people do make a big deal about it. But when I get into these discussions I want to be completely accurate, and so my reason for starting my Mechanics Differences document. As with my Rules Differences document, I hope to point out to the codes that we have too many differences for the same game! And we need to eliminate them!

[DaveASA/FED]

I agree with you on paper there is not that much difference in ASA and the other strike calls. However, in my experience someone has worked with NCAA umpires to have them bring that hammer WAY too far forward for my likeing, well and ASA's. Are these umpires the exception? Maybe but I think a lot of different areas are seeing that forward hammer and it looks different than the approved ASA hammer. And when you are evaluating someone to the utmost level that is something to note on their mechanics. Don't we all wish we had umpires that were at the level where this was all we had to pick on them for??

One item where I would offer some advice is trying to say that ASA, NFHS and NCAA rules cover "the same game". These all cover softball, but NFHS deals with high school level athletes, minors (normally) that still "report" to an organization. NCAA deals with adult female athletes competing at a high level. ASA deals with EVERYTHING. From little girls barely able to hold the ball up to 18U Gold college skilled players on the Junior Olympic side, Adults fastpitch, modified pitch. Then there is the slow pitch world, a complete world within it's self!!

Not only is the game level and participants different but so are the umpires. ASA has everything from the dad's out of the stands up to elite umpires to worry about training and learning their mechanics. NFHS and NCAA typically have a smaller audience to work with so they are able to assume more things, and to do some things that ASA might decide just wouldn't work good for the thousands of people that they are trying to train how to umpire.

Again not trying to say we shouldn't all do the best things when we umpire, but just trying to offer another way to look at the picture. Basically what is best for the game that each rule set is covering may very well be why we have those differences in the rules and mechanics.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Dave hits on a point here with his notations about the "slight" differences between NCAA & ASA. While on paper they seem very similar, in practice there is something that hasn't been mentioned, personal preference.

Like it or not, those entrusted to the training with the local associations have their own idea of what is right or wrong or required.

Purley through observation, the two acceptable mechanics are not at close in practice as they are on paper. Too many folks want to be like MLB umpires and throw that signal low and out in front of the of the body where there is limited visuals available.

Even among themselves, the umpires who work NCAA & ASA discuss the difference and necessary adjustments to work the respective games.

[Skahtboi]

Again, I will state, I really see this as a non issue in the area I work in. It might be different elsewhere.

[wadeintothem]

I've been dinged on everything, even some "made up on the spot" crap.. but not this.. yet.

[bniu]

how bout we all just do what Baseball does, a textbook hammer strike that most umpires never use Say what you want about the point but some umps make the pointer look really good, Dale Scott is one, he worked the ALCS game 6 behind the plate, his is nice and crisp. Bruce Froemming had a decent point. Tim McClelland had the laziest one possible...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by bniu

how bout we all just do what Baseball does, a textbook hammer strike that most umpires never use

Shouldn't that be ?

Say what you want about the point but some umps make the pointer look really good, Dale Scott is one, he worked the ALCS game 6 behind the plate, his is nice and crisp. Bruce Froemming had a decent point. Tim McClelland had the laziest one possible...

The point defeats the purpose of the signal. It also tends to draw the umpire's eyes away from the game. With some of the pitchers I know, some of these guys would still be looking at the 1B dugout when the catcher's glove will pop with the next pitch.

[Paul L]

Having the strike signal being the same as the out signal defeats the purpose of both.

[Skahtboi]

People who don't use the correct signal correctly are like people who use really horrible slang, and then are confused when other people can't understand a word they are saying.

The signal is to convey information, not to show personal "flair."

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by bniu

how bout we all just do what Baseball does, a textbook hammer strike that most umpires never use Say what you want about the point but some umps make the pointer look really good, Dale Scott is one, he worked the ALCS game 6 behind the plate, his is nice and crisp. Bruce Froemming had a decent point. Tim McClelland had the laziest one possible...

How bout you use softball signals and mechanics when working softball games and stop trying to mix in baseball stuff like so many other umpires?

Furthermore, how bout reading a softball umpire manual (ASA, NFHS, CCA, any one will do for this purpose), specifically the section on signals and why they are the way they are.

I agree with you about Dale Scott but I don't look to the pros when working on my signals.

[bniu]

Originally Posted by SethPDX

How bout you use softball signals and mechanics when working softball games and stop trying to mix in baseball stuff like so many other umpires?

Furthermore, how bout reading a softball umpire manual (ASA, NFHS, CCA, any one will do for this purpose), specifically the section on signals and why they are the way they are.

I agree with you about Dale Scott but I don't look to the pros when working on my signals.

how bout u admit that softball and baseball are essentially the same sport. Softball and baseball are about as close as Arena, 6-man, and 11-man football.

btw, i do use softball signals/mechanics when I work softball and baseball stuff when I work baseball. I was just being scarcastic about how baseball doesn't really care too much about how umps signal strikes.

someone here did make an excellent point about the pace of pitches and I guess it's something i haven't noticed too much but now that I think of it, the hammer does have a point (no pun intended) in softball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by bniu

how bout u admit that softball and baseball are essentially the same sport. Softball and baseball are about as close as Arena, 6-man, and 11-man football.

Did you really need to go there? How many times do I have to show the differences and that the game pirated more resembles slow pitch softball than any of the other games out there?

btw, i do use softball signals/mechanics when I work softball and baseball stuff when I work baseball. I was just being scarcastic about how baseball doesn't really care too much about how umps signal strikes.

someone here did make an excellent point about the pace of pitches and I guess it's something i haven't noticed too much but now that I think of it, the hammer does have a point (no pun intended) in softball.

The "hammer" isn't even that great as opposed to the "official" signal for some which involves rasing the hand above the head (where people can see it which is THE purpose of the signal) and then dropping to the hammer. IOW, the "hammer" seems to have developed out of the completion of the call.

So, for the point to be effective, the umpire pretty much needs to do something to bring attention to himself which is something umpires are told to avoid. I believe the best at doing this was Dutch Rennert when on the dish. Good umpire, just a bit too demonstrative for me.

[CecilOne]

For me, the signal needs to have enough height to be visible to all concerned (i.e., upward, not the horizontal point). Although, we really don't need the old "reach for the sky" move either.
What I can't stand is the fist in front of the body like an uppercut punch, which looks like an intimidation/threat/negative gesture.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by bniu

how bout u admit that softball and baseball are essentially the same sport.

No, thank you. This statement is patently untrue.

I know baseball does not care as much about signals, but maybe they should.