NCAA Test Questions

[johnnyg08]

I guess I wouldn't have protected R1 to third base
the close play part of the question
is irrelevant. The runner advances at his own peril.
That being said...it's tough to get in the
head of the author of the test.
When you take these tests try to not
read into the questions and you'll be okay
not saying I wouldn't misread some
but when we start to read into more than
what's written the questions are harder.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I guess I wouldn't have protected R1 to third base
the close play part of the question
is irrelevant. The runner advances at his own peril.
That being said...it's tough to get in the
head of the author of the test.
When you take these tests try to not
read into the questions and you'll be okay
not saying I wouldn't misread some
but when we start to read into more than
what's written the questions are harder.

I understand what you are saying, however, the closeness of a play is relevant. When obstruction occurs on a runner without a play being made on him, you can protect him to the base that he would have attained, in your judgement, had the obstrucion not occured. If R1 would have been out by 10+ feet, I might not have protected him to third, but since it was a "very close play," I might have. That is why there is no definitive answer to questions such as these and you cannot quantify an answer in black and white. As long as we have the understanding of the rules, along with the intent, I'm sure we will be able to correctly apply them during the course of the game.

[TussAgee11]

JM - on your first play, i suppose they want F2 protected. Just the way the question is worded makes me wonder where the contact happened.

"The bunted ball is near home plate. As the catcher moves out to catch the pop up, the batter unintentionally bumps the catcher causing him to drop the pop up. The umpire believes the catcher would have had a chance to double-up R1 if he had not dropped the ball."

If the contact is occuring "as the catcher moves out" I don't see how we have anything and I agree with your answer choice. But then we are led to believe that F2 had settled under the ball, because the bump caused him to drop the ball. If he had settled under it, I suppose 8.05e is the only thing you have left to enforce. Double play.

Its really a poorly written question that does not accurately describe the situation where 8.05e comes into play. As I read it, I had (a) as well. As TTS said, I suppose the author wanted F2 settled under the ball ready to make the play. He did a poor job of letting the test-taker know that.

----

Per your 2nd problem, (a) would be a much better choice if it read "error in judgement" since that is what it is getting at. I suppose by the answer they give, In the judgement of U3 the move was made before the break for 2nd.

In practicality, if I was U1, I'd ask U3

"why did you have a balk?"
"throw to an unoccupied base"
"did you have the move before the break to 2nd?"
"yes".

Ok then, (a) would be the correct answer. Certainly can't reverse that.

If he said something like... "he was stealing 2nd?" or "doesn't matter", then we would use (c). That is either an umpire without all the information or a clear rules misapplication.

Of course, the test question doesn't give you why the calling umpire called a balk, if he had all the info, and if he properly applied the rules to what his judgement was, so its another poorly written question.

----

All in all, I wouldn't sweat it much JM. I don't think you missed a beat on either of your answers.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

I understand what you are saying, however, the closeness of a play is relevant. When obstruction occurs on a runner without a play being made on him, you can protect him to the base that he would have attained, in your judgement, had the obstrucion not occured. If R1 would have been out by 10+ feet, I might not have protected him to third, but since it was a "very close play," I might have. That is why there is no definitive answer to questions such as these and you cannot quantify an answer in black and white. As long as we have the understanding of the rules, along with the intent, I'm sure we will be able to correctly apply them during the course of the game.

Yes, I can see that side too. Since we can't see the play, we have two different sides that are both possibly correct. If we could see R1 going into 2B, then see what he does before running to 3B...we'd have our answer...I'm still thinking that in this play...the "very close" piece is irrelevant probably based on what the author saw in his mind when writing the question...

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I guess I wouldn't have protected R1 to third base
the close play part of the question
is irrelevant. The runner advances at his own peril.

Not if I protect him to 3rd once the OBS occurs.

Now, I may change my mind a bit once I see the closeness of the play, but he is certainly getting 3rd on this play as described. If he tripped after 2nd, or stopped and yelled about the OBS before going to 3rd, or didn't run hard into 3rd, maybe we have an out. But the question doesn't describe any of that action, so, protect him to 3rd.

[mbyron]

John,

Tell 'em to fix the answers.

[dash_riprock]

7-11-f Exception (4) is the classic "tangle/untangle" where the B/R is heading to 1st base and the catcher is pursuing a batted ball out in front of the plate (i.e., both players are doing what they are supposed to be doing). Unless there is an intentional act, like a shove, it's nothing.

In the NCAA question, the batter's unintentional bump "causes the catcher to drop the pop-up." You have to have INT on that. A bump that causes a momentary delay in his fielding of the ball is treated differently than contact that causes him to drop a fly ball. I know that is not exactly what the rule says, but that's the way I was taught to enforce it.

On the balk question, NCAA is treating the balk call as judgment rather than a misapplication of a rule. In Appendix E, NCAA gives one example of a balk call that can be changed - when the calling umpire did not realize F1 had stepped off. My guess is, if that is not the specific reason for undoing the balk call, then the NCAA doesn't want it changed. I can see your problem with this one too.

Here's one from the written test given by my NCAA chapter:

A batter's legal position in the box is determined by:

a) Both feet are entirely within (not touching) the lines of the batters box

b) Both feet are entirely within the outer edge of the batters box lines

c) The batter is no closer than 6" from the inner edge of the plate

d) b & c

How would you answer that one?

[LittleLeagueBob]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Here's one from the written test given by my NCAA chapter:

A batter's legal position in the box is determined by:

a) Both feet are entirely within (not touching) the lines of the batters box

b) Both feet are entirely within the outer edge of the batters box lines

c) The batter is no closer than 6" from the inner edge of the plate

d) b & c

How would you answer that one?

Dash -

If they're trying to be cute, b is the only correct answer because the batter could be 10 feet from the plate and satisfy c, but obviously not be legal...

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by LittleLeagueBob

Dash -

If they're trying to be cute, b is the only correct answer because the batter could be 10 feet from the plate and satisfy c, but obviously not be legal...

What about d (b & c)? I know c is redundant, but 7-1-e A.R. says "...If the line of the batter's box has been erased, the umpire shall require that upon the batter's initial stance, both feet are no closer than 6 inches from the inside edge of home plate."

B and D are both correct, but one of them will be graded as incorrect (I'll find out which in about a week). It just ain't fair.

[LittleLeagueBob]

John -

I hope it's ok to piggy-back on your topic - I would appreciate some collective wisdom on the following one that I missed:

R1, the batter bunts down the first base line. The ball has rolled into foul territory but hits a clump of dirt in the running lane and changes direction and rolls back into fair territory. The BR inadvertently kicks it.

a. BR is out only if the ball is fair when he kicks it.
b. BR is out.
c. Foul ball.
d. R1 is out.

Explanation
7-11-o

I put a, answer is b

Here is 7-11-o:

The batter is out when:
o. After hitting or bunting a foul ball, the batter-runner intentionally
deflects the course of the ball in any manner while running to first base;
or intentionally interferes with the catcher’s attempt to field a third
strike. The ball is dead and no runner may advance;

BTW - I missed your 2nd Q as well...they've spent so much time on the "getting the call right" mentality that even tho this isn't one of the 7 scenarios listed in Appendix E, I thought they were trying to give us other examples where they prefer us to give unsolicited "help".

Thanks - Bob

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by LittleLeagueBob

John -

I hope it's ok to piggy-back on your topic - I would appreciate some collective wisdom on the following one that I missed:

R1, the batter bunts down the first base line. The ball has rolled into foul territory but hits a clump of dirt in the running lane and changes direction and rolls back into fair territory. The BR inadvertently kicks it.

a. BR is out only if the ball is fair when he kicks it.
b. BR is out.
c. Foul ball.
d. R1 is out.

Explanation
7-11-o

I put a, answer is b

Here is 7-11-o:

The batter is out when:
o. After hitting or bunting a foul ball, the batter-runner intentionally
deflects the course of the ball in any manner while running to first base;
or intentionally interferes with the catcher’s attempt to field a third
strike. The ball is dead and no runner may advance;

BTW - I missed your 2nd Q as well...they've spent so much time on the "getting the call right" mentality that even tho this isn't one of the 7 scenarios listed in Appendix E, I thought they were trying to give us other examples where they prefer us to give unsolicited "help".

Thanks - Bob

you put a... but if you read the question, it said the ball rolled back into fair territory..so B would be the correct answer....

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by LittleLeagueBob

R1, the batter bunts down the first base line. The ball has rolled into foul territory but hits a clump of dirt in the running lane and changes direction and rolls back into fair territory. The BR inadvertently kicks it.

a. BR is out only if the ball is fair when he kicks it.
b. BR is out.
c. Foul ball.
d. R1 is out.

Additionally, BR would be out if he inadvertantly kicked the ball if it was in foul territory and the ball had an opportunity to go fair.

[johnnyg08]

As for the balk scenario...this isn't a legal do over. U3 has to eat his call. After reading it again, I didn't do the test, but reading all of the options, I would've put "A." This isn't one that you can really fix. The CCA manual says something about the fact that changing the call would cause more problems so they eat this one.

At least I think it was CCA...but it might have been the NCAA memorandum on Appendix E that was published after an NCAA conference.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

As for the balk scenario...this isn't a legal do over. U3 has to eat his call. There's an out.

Two outta three ain't bad...unless the part you missed is the third one.