Balk Video

[mrm21711]

Myself and some other association members were talking about this specific play during the 2009 MLB season and I managed to find the video.

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | FLA@CIN: Marlins get out of the jam despite a balk - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

I felt this would be a great video to show our association members during our pitching rule/balk presentation. Here were some points I wanted to stress:

1) Joyce nailed the balk by not killing (if you watch the replay you can see him trying to kill it but the PU Adrian Johnson didnt notice him when he ran up the 1B line to make the call) until the ball was caught by RF and it was apparent the BR would not reach 1B.

2) The crew did not correctly enforce the balk by awarding the batter a ball and and awarding him first base as a result. The balk penalty is the runners are awarded their advance base and the pitch does not count. Here they gave Votto 2B and Phillips 1B. Crew should have awarded Votto 2B and Phillips should have remained at bat with a 3-2 count.

3) With no runners on base, this would be an illegal pitch and a BALL would be awarded to Phillips. If the ball was caught in RF, he would be awarded first because of this. If the ball dropped in RF & Phillips reached first, the illegal pitch would be ignored.

I felt this was a good video and could perhaps show our members how to enforce balks under OBR (since most are clueless how balks and penalties are supposed to be enforced under OBR).

Any other suggestions or comments regarding my points?

Thanks in advance.

[UES-2]

WOW... and these guys get 300k a year. Nobody mechanically called the balk. The moment RF caught the ball time should have been called. R1 to second and batter back to bat. Hell, Johnson is a AAA fill-in. He should atleast know the rule himself? BTW, The MLB guys DO NOT have to take a rules test each year. If I screwed this up in a college game, my boss would have my ***.

[justanotherblue]

It looks to me that they got it right. If you look at the video, at least to me, it seems like Jim Joyce is saying it's not a balk, it's an illegal pitch. It looks like he says it several times in the video. Therefore, with a 3-2 count, the batter is properly awarded a ball for the penalty, in this case also 1B, because of the count, with R1 being sent to 2B.

[mrm21711]

Originally Posted by justanotherblue

It looks to me that they got it right. If you look at the video, at least to me, it seems like Jim Joyce is saying it's not a balk, it's an illegal pitch. It looks like he says it several times in the video. Therefore, with a 3-2 count, the batter is properly awarded a ball for the penalty, in this case also 1B, because of the count, with R1 being sent to 2B.

An illegal pitch with runners on is a balk.

[johnnyg08]

yeah...I'm not saying they're never wrong because even they will admit that they're wrong sometimes...heck we're human. i wonder how they ruled this to put the B/R on 1B. must have something to do with ball 4 as stated in an above post.

an illegal pitch w/ runners on is an illegal pitch...but is there something in the interps about it being a 3-2 count and not giving the defense a chance to strike the batter out on a 3-2 count?

[UmpTTS43]

an illegal pitch w/ runners on is an illegal pitch...but is there something in the interps about it being a 3-2 count and not giving the defense a chance to strike the batter out on a 3-2 count?

an illegal pitch with runners on is a balk. R1 to 2nd, batter back up with a 3-2 count.

No options with a balk.

Sometimes you just have to say "WTF?"

[mrm21711]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

an illegal pitch with runners on is a balk. R1 to 2nd, batter back up with a 3-2 count.

No options with a balk.

Sometimes you just have to say "WTF?"

I agree. There are 2 things it could be: an illegal pitch (only with no runners on base) or a balk. An illegal pitch with runners on base is a balk, so there is nothing that allows you to credit a ball to the batter. The balk penalty is as I stated it above:

Originally Posted by mrm21711

2) The crew did not correctly enforce the balk by awarding the batter a ball and and awarding him first base as a result. The balk penalty is the runners are awarded their advance base and the pitch does not count. Here they gave Votto 2B and Phillips 1B. Crew should have awarded Votto 2B and Phillips should have remained at bat with a 3-2 count.

IMO the crew got this wrong. It HAS to be a balk and not an IP and the balk penalty never lets you award a ball to the batter.

[johnnyg08]

Sometimes I wonder how 4 guys can get any of the rule interps wrong at that level...it may have something to do w/ Joyce's experience. Is he the crew chief? Maybe the other guys didn't step in since they weren't asked...

[mrm21711]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Sometimes I wonder how 4 guys can get any of the rule interps wrong at that level...it may have something to do w/ Joyce's experience. Is he the crew chief? Maybe the other guys didn't step in since they weren't asked...

Cousins was - he is in the video. The crew was Cousins, Joyce, Bill Miller, and AAA Fill In Adrian Johnson.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

.......an illegal pitch w/ runners on is an illegal pitch...but is there something in the interps about it being a 3-2 count and not giving the defense a chance to strike the batter out on a 3-2 count?

Maybe OBR 8.05 (e) might be of some value to understand that an illegal pitch with runners on is a balk:

OBR 8.05
(e) The pitcher makes an illegal pitch;

Rule 8.05(e) Comment: A quick pitch is an illegal pitch. Umpires will judge a quick pitch as one delivered before the batter is reasonably set in the batter’s box. With runners on base the penalty is a balk; with no runners on base, it is a ball. The quick pitch is dangerous and should not be permitted.

Note that the comment specifically states that an illegal pitch with runners on is penalized as a balk.

[johnnyg08]

I know the rule...I guess I was playing along trying to figure out how they could've ruled the way that they did. Thanks for posting it though.

[mrm21711]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Maybe OBR 8.05 (e) might be of some value to understand that an illegal pitch with runners on is a balk:

OBR 8.05
(e) The pitcher makes an illegal pitch;

Rule 8.05(e) Comment: A quick pitch is an illegal pitch. Umpires will judge a quick pitch as one delivered before the batter is reasonably set in the batter’s box. With runners on base the penalty is a balk; with no runners on base, it is a ball. The quick pitch is dangerous and should not be permitted.

Note that the comment specifically states that an illegal pitch with runners on is penalized as a balk.

The way I interpret that too is that they are mutually exclusive - you cant have an illegal pitch & balk on the same play and combine penalties like the crew in the video did.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by mrm21711

The way I interpret that too is that they are mutually exclusive - you cant have an illegal pitch & balk on the same play and combine penalties like the crew in the video did.

Interesting point...the penalty for illegal pitch can be a balk...but you can't have both balk AND illegal pitch penalties on the same play?

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by mrm21711

The way I interpret that too is that they are mutually exclusive - you cant have an illegal pitch & balk on the same play and combine penalties like the crew in the video did.

correct. we catch mlb umpires too often messing up rules... which is odd

[David M]

I found this balk penalty ruling the Baseball Almanac website:


PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

It says the balk is ignored if the batter reaches on a base on balls.