That's a balk (video)

[David Emerling]

Check out this YouTube video of Vanderbilt pitcher, David Price, explaining the importance of a good pickoff move.

Yeah - I guess so!

Check out this video and tell me if you don't think every one of his examples is a balk.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[Tom H.]

I don't know about every pick off throw shown as not all give enough information (for me) --- that being said I can say that one in the middle of the vidio which was a view from 'home plate' area I certainly have a balk. His pivot foot DOES NOT gain direction more towards 1B than home. In fact it appears to me as if it is directly home. The thing that I don't understand -- with at least 3 umpires it was not called. Seems very strange....

[canablue05]

Just a hunch, but I think maybe the first base umpire balked him in that second clip, due to his reaction...but hey, just a guess...

[ncump7]

They all looked like balks to me. I did not think he stepped toward first base on any of his moves.

[jicecone]

"NCAA9.3.c While in a pitching position, throw to any base in an attempt to retire a runner without first stepping directly toward such base; or throw or
feint a throw toward any base when it is not an attempt to retire a runner
or prevent the runner from advancing;
(1) The pitcher, while touching the pitcher’s rubber, must step toward
the base, preceding or simultaneous with any move toward that
base. The pitcher is committed, upon raising the lead leg, to throw
to the base being faced, to second base or to the plate. When throwing
or feinting a throw to a base not being faced, the pitcher must
step immediately, directly and gain ground toward that base."

I would have to say this didn't happen however, this is where a umpiring team needs a pregame to discuss who is going to be watching what when this guy pitches with an R1.

The pitcher hisself stated that a lefty can be more deceptive and get away with it. He is right, a good lefty can make you have a real bad day. And of course when your are on that diamond you definetly don't have the benefit of a video replay.

[fitump56]

This is exactly the reason that there needs to be a complete revamping of how we treat LHP in the first place. No RHP gets anywhere near this leeway/cheating of the rules.

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by fitump56

This is exactly the reason that there needs to be a complete revamping of how we treat LHP in the first place. No RHP gets anywhere near this leeway/cheating of the rules.

A RHP can't physically do what a LHP can do on a move to 1B. That's why you don't see "leeway." No need to revamp rules. They just need to be enforced more consistantly, some of which is very hard to do with a 2-man crew.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by fitump56
This is exactly the reason that there needs to be a complete revamping of how we treat LHP in the first place. No RHP gets anywhere near this leeway/cheating of the rules.

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

A RHP can't physically do what a LHP can do on a move to 1B. That's why you don't see "leeway." No need to revamp rules. They just need to be enforced more consistantly, some of which is very hard to do with a 2-man crew.

I thought it was obvious that I was comparing moves to the bag that a P faces. Guess not.

Like the old-to-new strike zone, this rule needs to be enforced equally for RHP and LHP.

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by fitump56

Originally Posted by fitump56
This is exactly the reason that there needs to be a complete revamping of how we treat LHP in the first place. No RHP gets anywhere near this leeway/cheating of the rules.

I thought it was obvious that I was comparing moves to the bag that a P faces. Guess not.

Like the old-to-new strike zone, this rule needs to be enforced equally for RHP and LHP.

Missed that - my bad.

But on that note - RHP faces 3B - he isn't required to throw to 3B. The rules are completely different for 1B and 3B. I understand you are talking about the direction of the step, gaining distance and direction, etc

But I don't understand what revamping you suggest, as the rules are very different for the different bases (regardless of handedness of the pitcher)

Please explain

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

A RHP can't physically do what a LHP can do on a move to 1B. That's why you don't see "leeway." No need to revamp rules. They just need to be enforced more consistantly, some of which is very hard to do with a 2-man crew.

A RHP can do what a lefty does, except he does it toward 3rd base, as opposed to first. The identical move!

The difference is that a move toward 1st is more common and more useful. Pickoff attempts at 3rd are very rare.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by canablue05

Just a hunch, but I think maybe the first base umpire balked him in that second clip, due to his reaction...but hey, just a guess...

You may be right, but I think the look of disgust on his face is because there was a very close play at 1st and the umpire called him save. I think Price thought the runner was out.

But you could be correct.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[Jim Porter]

The move that starts at the 37 second mark in the clip should be called a balk by every umpire on the face of the earth no matter what code you're playing under.

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

A RHP can do what a lefty does, except he can does it toward 3rd base, as opposed to first. The identical move!

The difference is that a move toward 1st is more common and more useful. Pickoff attempts at 3rd are very rare.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

After reading your post, I remembered having a coach argue the direction of the foot when a RHP stepped to 3B. (identical to the argument we all have on LHP). I'm not sure why it didn't come to me sooner.

I'd contend that the move, if illegal, doesn't get called when RHP doesn't throw to 3B, just the step and feint. And many of those steps are immediately followed by a turn to 1B. One may not notice "distance and direction" as easily when he makes so much movement. I'd like to think that on tha actual pick off attempt at 3B it would be called the same as LHP to 1B. But in reality, they probably have more leeway than LHP for the fact that you pointed out, it's not seen as often. What I mean is that we are looking all the time for an illegal move to 1B by LHP. We simply watch the move of the RHP to 3B, and when something illegal jumps out, we call it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jim Porter

The move that starts at the 37 second mark in the clip should be called a balk by every umpire on the face of the earth no matter what code you're playing under.

To be honest, in my little (NCAA D3) world, every move in the video would get a balk call. It would come from the PU, since we still work 2-man in those games. At least it would if *I* was the PU.

[jicecone]

The hardest part about the left hander is the judgement of gaining distance toward first base on that type of move. In two man system the BU is almost always stuck with the inability of not being able to watch the complete step and still follow the ball to the bag for a possible tag. This is where the PU also has to be on his toes and looking for the step towards the bag.

With a BU behind First, at least he can tell if the leg is going more towards home then first however, it is still tough to totally see if the leg is gaining distance. Again the PU or a BU at second can make this call.

There is also the discussion about gaining distance and landing the foot at a place that is greater than a 45 deg. angle from the Pitching plate. Anything past the line is toward first and before the line is toward home plate.

Others feel that any apppreciable distance also satisfies the rules.

I don't know the answer but, one thing for sure, be prepared with a lefty on the mound and a R1, because when you miss it the first time, it will be hard to establish a good precedent from thereon.

To me it is one of the tougher judgement calls we have to make out there.

I am still open to suggestions.