pitcher tosses glove with ball

[cviverito]

GA Ump - I get that. I know the fed rule is different. To satisfy the doubters, I need an NCAA rules reference. What I have shown them is not good enough because it does not specifically say that a ball lodged in a glove is still live. Of course - it does not say it is dead either, but again...that's not good enough. I understand the ruling by looking at it as a disjunctive syllogism...which can be a tough concept to grasp...not to mention spell

[justanotherblue]

Ask them for the definition of a tag. Fed is the only rule set that punishes the defense for this.

[cviverito]

Page 39. Tag: Section 74. The action of a fielder in touching a base with any part of the body while holding the ball securely in the hand or glove or touching a runner with the ball or with the glove while holding the ball securely and firmly in that hand or glove.

Yeah...I see what you mean. "the glove" and/or "that glove" does not distinguish between "his" glove and another. So, logically, if it is not specified it applies to all gloves the ball may be in and the fielder may be holding.

I get it...I hope they will.

[UmpJM]

Chris,

The BRD treats this as a "point not covered" in the NCAA rules and says to "Treat as in OBR" - which, as you already know, means "keep it live and rule on the play".

There is nothing in the text of the NCAA rules that specifically addresses the question.

JM

[cviverito]

Thanks JM (aka 'Yoda') - Now I can take that BRD note to...never mind.

But this is exactly what I need - it truely is a point not covered.

Hey Finn - disjunctive syllogism is a fancy way of saying 'process of elimination'. So it's not an oxymoron. "Blind umpire"...that's an oxymoron

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by cviverito

Hey Finn - disjunctive syllogism is a fancy way of saying 'process of elimination'. So it's not an oxymoron. "Blind umpire"...that's an oxymoron

Some coaches will argue it's redundant.

[AAUA96]

The 2008 NCAA Study Guide (page 29 - Play 2-28) -
B1 hits a sharp, "one hopper" to the mound. F1 discovers the ball is lodged tightly between the fingers of his glove. F1 removes his glove and throws it, with the ball still lodged, to F3 in time to retire B1. Ruling: B1 is out.

There is no rule reference - but the only reference in the section is 8-3L.

Had this question on my 2010 NCAA Rules Test. Don't have the 2010 Study Guide so I don't know if it is still in the guide.

The NCAA test is increasingly making reference to other sources besides the rule book (like the CCA Mechanics Manual and the Study Guide). May be an effort to sell more books. It appears they have a dire need for funds - given the $100 charge to take the test this year.

Walt

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by cviverito

Hey Finn - disjunctive syllogism is a fancy way of saying 'process of elimination'. So it's not an oxymoron. "Blind umpire"...that's an oxymoron

A definition I used for students is: A disjunctive syllogism, also known as modus tollendo ponens, is a classically valid argument form. The disjunction is true when one or both of its components (disjuncts) are true, and false when both of its components are false.

"Blind umpire" is really not a good example of an oxymoron, which simply, is the comination of words or terms that are normally and widely accepted as contradictory. "Honest Coach" comes to mind.

[cviverito]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

"Blind umpire" is really not a good example of an oxymoron, which simply, is the comination of words or terms that are normally and widely accepted as contradictory. "Honest Coach" comes to mind.

LOL. Good point.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Chris,

The BRD treats this as a "point not covered" in the NCAA rules and says to "Treat as in OBR" - which, as you already know, means "keep it live and rule on the play".

There is nothing in the text of the NCAA rules that specifically addresses the question.

JM

The NCAA has said something to the effect of "if it's not covered, use OBR" (exactly who, where and how this was said I can't recall).

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The NCAA has said something to the effect of "if it's not covered, use OBR" (exactly who, where and how this was said I can't recall).

2009 Rules - page 11 - should set the stage:

NCAA baseball rules essentially are the same as for professional baseball;
however, there are some safety-related differences—some minor and a few
major—of which participants should be aware.

For the issue at hand:

MLBUM (2009) Para 5.10 says the ball remaims alive and in play,

[johnnyg08]

That's what I've seen too...only a penalty in FED.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by cviverito

I understand the ruling by looking at it as a disjunctive syllogism...

Don't be coming in here as a newcomer and then start throwing around stuff like disjunctive syllogism. I mean, where do you think you are?

Besides, isn't disjunctive syllogism an oxymoron?

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by cviverito

GA Ump - I get that. I know the fed rule is different.

I simply meant that they may be applying the FED rule to NCAA. When, we all know FED = Calvinball.

I'm kind of surprised that they would apply one rule set to another without the explicit written part of it or official interpretation saying something to that effect. And, if they aren't, then I'm surprised b/c I have seen several clips and games of the pitcher tossing his glove to F3.

Why do we try to put/say more is there when it isn't? Interesting.