2 Man Mechanics FED...

[pastordoug]

Just moved to new area and finding out that things are a bit different... No problem with making adjustment just wanting to ask "why" we do it that way and meeting resistances. So let me ask this forum for help...

Why would you want U1 to have 2nd play call at 3rd with runners on 1st and 2nd?

I will reserve my answer after reading several answers and our rational in previous association for having U1 stay home unless runner on 1st only with base hit....

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by pastordoug

Just moved to new area and finding out that things are a bit different... No problem with making adjustment just wanting to ask "why" we do it that way and meeting resistances. So let me ask this forum for help...

Why would you want U1 to have 2nd play call at 3rd with runners on 1st and 2nd?

I will reserve my answer after reading several answers and our rational in previous association for having U1 stay home unless runner on 1st only with base hit....

U1 is the home plate umpire?

I agree -- if the batted ball doesn't leave the infield, PU doesn't leave home plate. (and, no, I don't mean that too literally)

[pastordoug]

Yes, U1 is Plate.
This is what the manual states about that situation: "On any fly ball and line drive to the outfield the plate umpire is responsible for the tag-up at third base as well as any play at the plate in the runner advancing from third base. Should the ball not be caught, the plate umpire would also be responsible for the play at third base in the runner originally on first unless the plate umpire must remain on the first base line for coverage".
I do not understand this mechanic? The TAG I agree but not the other…..

[jicecone]

You realize that you have just created the possibility of a 7 page thread here.

[pastordoug]

lol..... not like we haven't seen one of those before. i really just want to get a reason together to submit for a change in this manual.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by pastordoug

Yes, U1 is Plate.
This is what the manual states about that situation: "On any fly ball and line drive to the outfield the plate umpire is responsible for the tag-up at third base as well as any play at the plate in the runner advancing from third base. Should the ball not be caught, the plate umpire would also be responsible for the play at third base in the runner originally on first unless the plate umpire must remain on the first base line for coverage".
I do not understand this mechanic? The TAG I agree but not the other…..

I don't know anyone who uses the FED manual. I throw it in the trash. Waste of paper IMO.

If your state uses it, then I suppose you should. But I don't think you'll find many here willing to explain the choices in it.

[johnnyg08]

Many will tell you that the only time BU should cover the plate is after he goes out from A on a fly ball and has to rotate back to the plate. There should be enough time for BU to get an angle for the play back at 3B, PU is much more valuable staying at home whenever possible.

[jicecone]

When I first began umpiring that was the method taught also, in my area. Very few officials attended schools, mechanics were left up to you to learn and when you arrived at the field, what worked for you and your partner, was proper for that game.

Somehow it always worked out good for me because I was very mobile and it seemed that after several times working with a partner that just seemed to ignore third base, I figured I would be there and not have to take the heat for either of NOT being there. Never, was there a play at home that was not covered. If the BU could handle the 2 bases, I most certainly could. just as easily. The coverage was always there.

I have sinced worked in many other locations and seen it handled one way or the other and adjusted accordingly. Sometimes you work with someone that says they are going to do this and that and when the play develops, BAM they are out of position and it is your responsibility to cover, so that BOTH of you look good. Thats when you have to forget about mechanics, protocol, the forum and every manual written and get things covered.

Do as your organization requires, but always expect the unexpected.

[ODJ]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Many will tell you that the only time BU should cover the plate is after he goes out from A on a fly ball and has to rotate back to the plate. There should be enough time for BU to get an angle for the play back at 3B, PU is much more valuable staying at home whenever possible.

What?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by pastordoug

Yes, U1 is Plate.
This is what the manual states about that situation: "On any fly ball and line drive to the outfield the plate umpire is responsible for the tag-up at third base as well as any play at the plate in the runner advancing from third base. Should the ball not be caught, the plate umpire would also be responsible for the play at third base in the runner originally on first unless the plate umpire must remain on the first base line for coverage".
I do not understand this mechanic? The TAG I agree but not the other…..

Now I'm confused. In your OP, you indicated R1 and R2. So, there could never be a "tag-up at third base" as in this post.

Plus, you asked about a "second play call at third", which I inferred to mean a ground ball inthe infield -- and this post is about coverage on a fly to the outfield.

It might be more clear if you asked about some specific situation.

Here (and I don't know the specific FED mechanics on this), PU has a play at third if there's:

• R1 and a single (don't be too literal on that) (PU takes R1 into third)
  R1, R3 and a single (ditto) (ditto)
  R1, R2 and a caught fly ball (PU takes R2 into third)

That's it. (other that TWP where BU falls down, etc.)

PU also has all tag-ups at third (R3 and a fly ball), all runners touching third, and all plays at the plate.

BU has tag-ups, touches and all plays at first or second, and all plays at third other than the above.

[mbyron]

Bob, our first association meeting is in 3 weeks. Please prepare your PowerPoints and e-mail me for directions.

[lawump]

To answer the original post (and assuming the original post was talking about a groundball in the infield where the base umpire would make a call at first, and then have to make a call at third on a runner trying to advance from second base to third base while the ball was being thrown to first base):

For the sake of uniformity our high school association adopted the MiLB two-man mechanics ("the red book"). Since they have the plate umpire remaining at home on a ground ball in the infield, and the base umpire taking both the play at first and the play at third base on the runner attempting to advance...that is how we do it.

As for the theory behind why the base umpire takes the play and the plate umpire stays home: I defer to PBUC (who publishes the "red book") since they eat, sleep and drink umpiring 24/7 for 365 and must have a good reason for adopting this mechanic. Unfortunately, I do not have my red book in front of me as I type this to tell you what their printed theory is.

But to answer the original question: we do it because (1) we need uniformity and (2) that's how they do it at the highest level of baseball umpired by a two umpire crew.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by lawump

As for the theory behind why the base umpire takes the play and the plate umpire stays home: I defer to PBUC (who publishes the "red book") since they eat, sleep and drink umpiring 24/7 for 365 and must have a good reason for adopting this mechanic. Unfortunately, I do not have my red book in front of me as I type this to tell you what their printed theory is.

Even in PBUC, the "right" answer goes back and forth. First, "BU has both plays" is standard, but "PU can come up" is allowed as an "advanced mechanic." Then, "PU has the play" is standard, with "BU has both" being the advanced. Then, switched again.

My theory: On some plays, it's better for BU to take it; on some, it's better for PU to take it. But, you don't know which type of play you have until it's over (or at least too late to react). So, someone gets burned under one mechanic, and switches. Then, someone else gets burned under the change, and changes back.

My conclusion: Coaches "understand" that the play at third could be tough for either umpire, and they'd rather have the help on a pulled-foot or swipe tag at first. So, PU should stay home and BU should have both calls.