Mark McGwire admits to long-term steroid use!

[Ump153]

Okay, Mr, Rutledge, I get the hint. You won't answer my question. So, I'll have to make do with what you've already said to demonstrate your level of understanding.

Who could forget:

"The last time I checked Steroids were legal when Mac was playing."
(MLB banned steriods in 1991 providing unspecified punishment. Testing and punishment were added by Selig in 1997)

"And it must be noted that we have no idea if and when he used them illegally "
(McGwire has admitted he used them illegally and prrovided a timeline.)

"People that have asthma and other muscle conditions can take and do take steroids. But hey, they are illegal right?"
(As we all know, these are corticosteroids and were not banned.)

"Here is the thing, we do not know what McGuire used or did not use."
(McGwire claims he illegally used banned steriods.)

[JRutledge]

[QUOTE=Ump153;650891]Okay, Mr, Rutledge, I get the hint. You won't answer my question. So, I'll have to make do with what you've already said to demonstrate your level of understanding.

Originally Posted by Ump153

Who could forget:

"The last time I checked Steroids were legal when Mac was playing."
(MLB banned steriods in 1991 providing unspecified punishment. Testing and punishment were added by Selig in 1997)

And you still have not explained to me how something is illegal was not tested for. And you still have not explained to me what punishment was a result of getting caught for such substances. And you still have not explained to me who during this time frame was suspended or banned from MLB at this time. You can say there something is illegal in MLB, but there is no punishment for taking them in any way. So I stand by the fact that these substances were legal because even the people in the Mitchell Report that are current players still have not been punished for either taking them or admitting to taking them. And I am not the only one that has said that. Many media people have said the very same thing and they cover the sport. This is not a new or novel idea I am talking about. A memo alone does not make something illegal. You have to have a policy to verify something illegal is being done and punish those that violate the laws.

Mac did not get punished or violate any drug policy in his entire career. And he certainly did not get punished in 1998 when he said he took them during his record setting year.

Originally Posted by Ump153

"And it must be noted that we have no idea if and when he used them illegally "
(McGwire has admitted he used them illegally and prrovided a timeline.)

Illegally meaning the law. In other words, he was not prosecuted for having them in possession (which is illegal without a prescription). He was not ever criminally charged for using (which is illegal without prescription). No doctor was charged for giving them to him. He never stated in the interview where he got steroids from or how he got them (he had to get them from somewhere). He only admitted to taking them, he did not say he got them illegally. You can still get steroids legally under the right circumstances. You can even get HGH legally under the right circumstances. HGH is used for anti-aging purposes, but if you play professional and amateur sports, you will not be able to play while taking them and they are found in your system with a drug test.

Originally Posted by Ump153

"People that have asthma and other muscle conditions can take and do take steroids. But hey, they are illegal right?"
(As we all know, these are corticosteroids and were not banned.)

Are you saying that only anabolic steroids the only illegal substances in MLB? I do recall that Manny Ramirez was suspended this past year for a substance that was not a steroid. If I recall it was a substance for a pregnant woman to use but somehow helpful for a man to use as a PED. Which again goes back to my original position on this, MLB did not have a comprehensive drug testing policy. Saying you cannot use something and never test for it with urine or blood test is not comprehensive. And you forgot to quote my comments about the NFL and how they put a player on the drug program that tested positive for a ban substance that he used for an inhaler for his Asthma medication. Again, the NFL had to back off because he had a prescription to this substance. MLB had no such policy and allowed players to take things like Andro (which was banned in the NFL too in 1998) but MLB turned the other way.

Being from Chicago I remember Jim Miller who was a QB in the early 2000s was suspended for taking an over the counter medication and it was found in a drug test. He was suspended and put on the drug program in the NFL. This was not a steroid, but something found in common over the counter legal drug that anyone can buy he was suspended for. And when he tried to say he did not know this was banned, he was not given a pass by anyone. MLB had no such policy and allowed their players to take anything. Oh, I forgot, they banned steroids but they did not test for them. Riiiiggghhhtttt!!!!

Originally Posted by Ump153

"Here is the thing, we do not know what McGuire used or did not use."
(McGwire claims he illegally used banned steriods.)

What was the substance that Big Mac took? Do you know? Did he say in his interviews on MLB Network and ESPN the last couple of days? I will be waiting for the substance (very specific) name as we do not know what he took and in what doses. He never said how he got them or who gave them to him (which still could have been from a doctor for all we know).

I realize reading and understanding are hard for some people, but you have not answered any of these questions.

Peace

[grunewar]

Jose Canseco: Mark McGwire lying about steroid use - MLB News - FOX Sports on MSN

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I realize reading and understanding are hard for some people ...

I think this says it all about your struggles with fully understanding this issue, and how it is being addressed.

[ozzy6900]

Who really gives a crap anyway? Does it affect you or your paycheck? All this mess does is bring baseball down yet another notch. Baseball banned the Chicago boys but kept a beer toting philanderer like the Babe. They threw out Rose because he put a black eye on the Game yet they turned the other way with "juice". Face it, Baseball just does as it pleases to keep face and all the pi$$ing and moaning from the fans won't do jack crap to fix it. Personally, I could care less who is in the Hall of Flame because it does nothing for me or my life. My input as to who gets into the Hall means nothing so I don't bother to argue. Baseball is like the Government. Don't do this today but tomorrow you can do it all you want - as long as we are not looking.

Get a life, people! You are just umpires and fans of the Game. try to remember your place!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Who really gives a crap anyway? Does it affect you or your paycheck? All this mess does is bring baseball down yet another notch. Baseball banned the Chicago boys but kept a beer toting philanderer like the Babe. They threw out Rose because he put a black eye on the Game yet they turned the other way with "juice". Face it, Baseball just does as it pleases to keep face and all the pi$$ing and moaning from the fans won't do jack crap to fix it. Personally, I could care less who is in the Hall of Flame because it does nothing for me or my life. My input as to who gets into the Hall means nothing so I don't bother to argue. Baseball is like the Government. Don't do this today but tomorrow you can do it all you want - as long as we are not looking.

Get a life, people! You are just umpires and fans of the Game. try to remember your place!

So true, so true. And no matter what anyone says, baseball did not outlaw taking substances and a memo does not change that. And this situation with Big Mac was created by the powers that be. They only have themselves to blame and why they will have to deal with players that were the best of their era under complete and total perception of cheating the game no matter what you think. And you have arrogant media people who want to say someone that they never saw play were better than current players. It is all kind of humorous to me.

Peace

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And no matter what anyone says, baseball did not outlaw taking substances and a memo does not change that.

http://www.steroidsinbaseball.net/assets/memo.pdf

And the truth shall set you free.

[TussAgee11]

Jeeze, legality and enforcement principles are two completely different things. You think any decent umpire would understand that.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Jeeze, legality and enforcement principles are two completely different things. You think any decent umpire would understand that.

You'd think, wouldn't you?

Then again, perhaps the difficulty lies in the qualifier in your second sentence.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Ump153

You'd think, wouldn't you?

Then again, perhaps the difficulty lies in the qualifier in your second sentence.

Obviously you do not understand the difference. Pete Rose is banned from baseball. He cannot hold a position in baseball. He cannot watch a game in a baseball stadium. He cannot even help out in spring training with players and teams and pass down the wisdom of hitting.

Mark McGwire is currently the Hitting Coach for the St. Louis Cardinals. Not only has he admitted to using what you call an illegal substance and was never suspended as a player for using any substance and all his records stand. But I guess steroids were banned right? Funny how the same applies to Sosa, Bonds, A-Rod, Manny or any other player that admits or found to using steroids or any illegal substances. Better yet, if other teams wanted to hire those individuals I just mentioned to positions in the front office or on the managerial staffs of those teams, they could. Wow, that must have been some memo.

And if the sports writers choose to vote McGwire in the HOF, they can. If they sports writers want to vote Rose into the Hall of Fame, Rose is not on the ballet. But you seem to have a good grasp of illegality and punishment.

Peace

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Jeeze, legality and enforcement principles are two completely different things. You think any decent umpire would understand that.

You would think.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Ump153

http://www.steroidsinbaseball.net/assets/memo.pdf

And the truth shall set you free.

Interesting. The 1991 ban came complete with testing and discipline. Puts the lie to J/R's babble, doesn't it?

I'm sure he'll invent something to dispose of this reality as well. In fact, it should be coming soon...wait for it...here it comes...

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Okay, Mr, Rutledge, I get the hint. You won't answer my question. So, I'll have to make do with what you've already said to demonstrate your level of understanding.

Who could forget:

"The last time I checked Steroids were legal when Mac was playing."
(MLB banned steriods in 1991 providing unspecified punishment. Testing and punishment were added by Selig in 1997)

"And it must be noted that we have no idea if and when he used them illegally "
(McGwire has admitted he used them illegally and prrovided a timeline.)

"People that have asthma and other muscle conditions can take and do take steroids. But hey, they are illegal right?"
(As we all know, these are corticosteroids and were not banned.)

"Here is the thing, we do not know what McGuire used or did not use."
(McGwire claims he illegally used banned steriods.)

Debating JR is like the proverbial "nailing jello to the wall." His logic is fluid with no constraints. He ignores facts. He creates facts. He changes his positions then denies doing so. He will deny saying something that can still be seen in his prior posts. Then he will lock on an argument that is so absurd it can hardly be debated within the confines of broadband. (For example, "if no one has been punished for a certain action, no law or prohibition against that action can exist.")

Fortunately he is unique. If you will note, not one of over a hundred posters at this site agrees with him, which gives us hope for this site.

My advice is to give up. You can present facts, you can demonstrate reality, you can discuss possibilities. You can't make someone think.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Debating JR is like the proverbial "nailing jello to the wall." His logic is fluid with no constraints. He ignores facts. He creates facts. He changes his positions then denies doing so. He will deny saying something that can still be seen in his prior posts. Then he will lock on an argument that is so absurd it can hardly be debated within the confines of broadband. (For example, "if no one has been punished for a certain action, no law or prohibition against that action can exist.")

Fortunately he is unique. If you will note, not one of over a hundred posters at this site agrees with him, which gives us hope for this site.

My advice is to give up. You can present facts, you can demonstrate reality, you can discuss possibilities. You can't make someone think.

+1.

I generally ignore his logic-impaired pap. Every so often I can't help myself. I'm grateful for the ignore feature at those times.