Mark McGwire admits to long-term steroid use!

[Kevin Finnerty]

Rose gambled freely as a player and a manager for years and went to prison for tax evasion. Jackson was a small part of one fixing scheme.

You can't compare Rose's and Jackson's cases. Rose's risk to the game was significantly worse.

[PeteBooth]

Obviously that is matter of opinion.

Cheating is Cheating. It's just a matter of which type of Cheating you condone. Also, how was Rose's risk to the game significanlty worse then those that cheated using the "Juice".

Paul Horning bet on football and was suspended for a year BUT that did not stop him from being elected into the PRO football Hall of fame.

If the Hall is about CHARACTER then at least 75% of the players already inducted should not be in there.

Also, IMO Shoeless Joe did not "throw" the game and NEVER did take the money. He was an innocent bystander who got caught up in the mess.

Pete Booth

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Obviously that is matter of opinion.

Cheating is Cheating. It's just a matter of which type of Cheating you condone. Also, how was Rose's risk to the game significanlty worse then those that cheated using the "Juice".

If the Hall is about CHARACTER then at least 75% of the players already inducted should not be in there.

Also, IMO Shoeless Joe did not "throw" the game and NEVER did take the money. He was an innocent bystander who got caught up in the mess.

Pete Booth

No, cheating is not cheating. That is a narrow and dangerous over-simplification. There are degrees to everything. And that's not a matter of opinion, it's the way our entire system works.

And if you can't discern the difference between an individual trying to enhance his performance, and a MANAGER trying to illegally capitalize on his team's performance by gambling on their games, I don't know how to help you.

Rose violated baseball's sacred code as a player AND as a manager for a dozen years. And he went to jail for tax evasion! And everyone around him went to prison for an array of felonies, including cocaine trafficking! Rose's campaign, by its mere duration, was a series of violations of a drastically higher degree than Jackson's, or any other gambler or certainly any juicer or bat corker.

If you want to lump all kinds of cheaters together and brand them all, you go right ahead. I have a broad and thoughtful approach, and I can't be confined to such a simple outlook.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

If the Hall is about CHARACTER then at least 75% of the players already inducted should not be in there.
Pete Booth

While I am not naive, nor a purist, I find that number a bit high.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

You can't compare Rose's and Jackson's cases. Rose's risk to the game was significantly worse.

Isn't that a comparison?

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Isn't that a comparison?

Semantics.

Here goes: You can't liken Jackson's violation to Rose's.

And I thank you for making me scratch my head and change that.

[dash_riprock]

Rose is a low-life and he broke laws (federal and baseball), but he never bet against his own team and he tried to win every game 100-0. That doesn't mean anything to the HOF suits, but it does to me.

[Kevin Finnerty]

When you only bet on your team, it is a signal to gambling insiders that there is a reason to bet against the Reds that day.

One day, Pete left his post in the Reds dugout to watch the Belmont---right in the middle of a game, and during the '89 investigation that led to his banishment!

The Reds, and winning baseball games was a sidelight to Rose's nefarious existence.

[jkumpire]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Rose gambled freely as a player and a manager for years and went to prison for tax evasion. Jackson was a small part of one fixing scheme.

You can't compare Rose's and Jackson's cases. Rose's risk to the game was significantly worse.

Kevin,

You are right: Shoeless Joe was acquitted in a trial over the illegalities of the Blacksox scandal, and therefore he should be eligible for the Hall of Fame. Pete Rose is a different case, as you state, and should never, ever be considered, which is a great tragedy.