Botched Double play: Mechanic Help

[eagle_12]

Tailor-made 4-6-3 double play, great stop by F4, perfect feed to F6 coming across the bag, but....................

As F6 is catching the ball while coming across second, he never makes a catch (ball hits him in the gut, bobbles it a little, and drops it on the ground)

Runner thinking that the he would be out, and not causing contact, slid a good 10 ft. short of the bag. Well he got stuck in the muddy infield and then saw the ball dropped and had to scramble to second.

F6 recovered the ball and tried tagging the runner while scrambling towards the base.

My question is what is the proper verbal and visual mechanic for this?
The one I did was a double safe call. I called safe as he juggled the ball and thinking he was going to hang on and throw to first for the BR. I then did verbal/visual safe as they tried to scramble back to the bag

Afterwards, my thinking is that I probably shouldn't have said safe in the first "play" as the runner isn't technically safe, yet. My thinking would be that it should maybe be a "NO" verbal and the safe visual call and then if he tries to throw to first, make that call, then come back pointing towards second saying "Safe" while giving that signal along with a visul "juggling" mechanic. In this situation I think that I could give the "No" and safe visual, and then the verbal and visual "Safe"

But then I think that we don't say "no" in those types of plays so that's probably not a correct way to do it.

Just thought I would come on here and see if anyone has suggestions about how to handle this. As honestly I've never had this situation happen before. I'e had the juggling, but the runner is always finished his slide into the base.

Thanks for your help

[Cub42]

I would not make a call on the fielder juggling the ball for 2 reasons you stated. 1) He had no control of the ball and was not on the bag, 2) the runner was nowhere near the base as you stated. Now when F6 grabs the ball and attempts to tag runner, and you said he missed tag, verbally " No Tag" while making the safe sign

[RPatrino]

I would make a 'juggling' signal and a safe sign on the first attempt at the force play. The position of the runner has no bearing on making this call in a force situation. Would you make an out call if the fielder had made the play?

You also make the call on the second play, 'safe, no tag', or whatever verbiage suits you.

[bniu]

if u watch what MLB umpires at 2B do on the DP, most of them take a good 3-4 seconds before they casually bring up the fist to indicate the out. Just let the play finish and once it's clear, call it. same deal as in two man, ur first looking at 2nd, so just let the play develop, pause, and make the call.

[TussAgee11]

They don't call it early because they are waiting for action at the bag to be finished (possible INT).

Here, you better make a call, both verbal and signal, so players know what to do next. I like a "No!," everyone will know that we do NOT have an out, and the runner is still in jeopardy. Add juggling mechanic.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by bniu

if u watch what MLB umpires at 2B do on the DP, most of them take a good 3-4 seconds before they casually bring up the fist to indicate the out.

MLB umpires can take four seconds, with four man mechanics, they don't have to prepare for the call at first.

If you're working two man, you can't be that casual.

[DG]

I don't see anything wrong with calling safe when you have a safe and out when you have an out. Two safes in a row means two different plays on the runner, both safe. A safe followed by an out is also two different plays on the same runner. An out followed by a safe is generally a correction...

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Ump153

MLB umpires can take four seconds, with four man mechanics, they don't have to prepare for the call at first.

If you're working two man, you can't be that casual.

Agreed. And: you can take your time making a routine "out" call. On this play, the runner needs to know whether he's out.

I agree with DG: rule on the attempted force play, then rule on the attempted tag play. I have no problem with "Safe!" twice (with the "safe" mechanic).

A "bobble" mechanic wouldn't hurt, but it also wouldn't add much.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by eagle_12

Tailor-made 4-6-3 double play, great stop by F4, perfect feed to F6 coming across the bag, but....................

As F6 is catching the ball while coming across second, he never makes a catch (ball hits him in the gut, bobbles it a little, and drops it on the ground)

Runner thinking that the he would be out, and not causing contact, slid a good 10 ft. short of the bag. Well he got stuck in the muddy infield and then saw the ball dropped and had to scramble to second.

F6 recovered the ball and tried tagging the runner while scrambling towards the base.

As an official we make a call when a call needs to be made.

Simple example: R1: F1 simply tosses the ball to F3 who throws it back to F1

In the aforementioned F3 did NOT apply a tag but simply tossed the ball back to F1 therefore, as an umpire we signal nothing. When the defense makes a PLAY on a runner is when we signal something.

Now back to your OP

As F6 is catching the ball while coming across second, he never makes a catch (ball hits him in the gut, bobbles it a little, and drops it on the ground)

There is nothing to signal. Now if it was in DOUBT as to whether or not F6 bobbled the ball etc. then we would give a signal but in your OP the ball was dropped so no need to signal anything.

F6 recovered the ball and tried tagging the runner while scrambling towards the base.

Here the defense made a play on a runner so we signal.

In summary: We signal when the defense makes a play on a runner.

Pete Booth