Simple Balk Question

[mrm21711]

I have a simple balk question but need some feedback before I send an email out to a few association members. This didnt happen in my game but I was told this by 2 guys who were working on another field nearby.

Runners on 1st & 2nd. Pitcher takes sign, comes set. Pitcher steps (i.e. makes a legal feint) and throws to SS who is in his "normal" position nowhere near 2B, ect. They call a balk.

They told me the story after the game and my a bunch of red flags kept going up as they were progressing. I told them, "thats not a balk" as the one guy was claiming the throw to SS constituted P throwing to an unoccupied base. I told him thats incorrect and only at 1B does the fielder need to be in the vicinity to make a play on the runner in a pickoff situation.

My contention is/was that pitcher needs to make a legal feint towards 2B. Anything he does after cannot be a balk. In the above situation he certainly made a legal feint towards 2B. The game was played under OBR but I believe this would also not be a balk under NFHS.

I would appreciate some feedback. Thanks.

[UmpJM]

mrm,

As described, you are correct. That is not a balk, and your rationale is correct.

So, unless the F1 did something else that was a balk, the balk call was incorrect.

JM

[RPatrino]

A little mantra begins to play in my head....'it's impossible to balk to second base....' MAKE IT STOP!!!

[UmpJM]

mrm,

Just in case you need to "convince" someone, this is what the MLBUM has to say on the question:

(b) There is no violation if a pitcher attempts a pick-off at second base and, seeing no fielder covering the bag, throws to the shortstop or second baseman, neither of whom is in the vicinity of the bag nor is making an actual attempt to retire the runner.

JM

[cookie]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

A little mantra begins to play in my head....'it's impossible to balk to second base....' MAKE IT STOP!!!

What about an RH who in the SET position spins on his free foot counterclockwise in one continuous motion stepping toward second with his pivot foot gaining distance & direction (perhaps to catch R1 stealing or just to throw to an occupied 2nd base?).

Wouldn't that be a balk?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by cookie

What about an RH who in the SET position spins on his free foot counterclockwise in one continuous motion stepping toward second with his pivot foot gaining distance & direction (perhaps to catch R1 stealing or just to throw to an occupied 2nd base?).

Wouldn't that be a balk?

Moving the pivot foot toward 2B sounds like stepping off to me, in which case, no, it's not a balk, however ugly it might appear.

If he separates his hands before stepping off, it might be a balk, but it would be one for starting and stopping, not a balk TO SECOND BASE.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by cookie

What about an RH who in the SET position spins on his free foot counterclockwise in one continuous motion stepping toward second with his pivot foot gaining distance & direction (perhaps to catch R1 stealing or just to throw to an occupied 2nd base?).

Wouldn't that be a balk?

Assuming you typed that correctly (spins off the FREE foot and steps with the PIVOT foot), then, yes, that's a balk.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by cookie

What about an RH who in the SET position spins on his free foot counterclockwise in one continuous motion stepping toward second with his pivot foot gaining distance & direction (perhaps to catch R1 stealing or just to throw to an occupied 2nd base?).

Wouldn't that be a balk?

Definitely agree it is a balk however, besides Peggy Flemming, what pitcher with any sense would make a move like that. I agree I haven't seen it all, but I have never seen a pickoff attempt like that.

[cookie]

"...Assuming you typed that correctly (spins off the FREE foot and steps with the PIVOT foot), then, yes, that's a balk."

Yes, I wrote it correctly, and the reason I mention this "counterclockwise" spin off the free foot that ends up with a step toward second with the pivot foot (pivot foot did not step directly backward...) is that there was a post recently somewhere about a MiLB umpire who called a balk to second on an F1 and gave the explanation that F1 had "spun off his foot". I could only think of this possibility...

[Tim C]

It is a balk: but it is NOT a balk to second base. It is a balk for failing to disengage correctly.

It Is Impossible To Balk To An Occupied Second Base.

[RPatrino]

That's a 'balka'? Which one of these situations described do you consider a 'balka'?

[JJ]

Originally Posted by mrm21711

Runners on 1st & 2nd. Pitcher takes sign, comes set. Pitcher steps (i.e. makes a legal feint) and throws to SS who is in his "normal" position nowhere near 2B, ect. They call a balk.

I would appreciate some feedback. Thanks.

Hmmm....a bit confusing here....did he "feint" to first first and if so, did he disengage first before throwing to the SS? If this is the scenario and he DID disengage, it's not a balk (for throwing to the SS who was in his normal position). If he feinted to first WITHOUT disengaging first, he balked.
If his "legal feint" was to SECOND first and then he threw to the SS, he did not balk.

JJ

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Highest Quality

Balk as you have described it.

Wrong. Not a balk.

[RPatrino]

These aren't balks or even "balkas"....

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mrm21711

Runners on 1st & 2nd. Pitcher takes sign, comes set. Pitcher steps (i.e. makes a legal feint) and throws to SS who is in his "normal" position nowhere near 2B, ect. They call a balk.

They told me the story after the game and my a bunch of red flags kept going up as they were progressing. I told them, "thats not a balk" as the one guy was claiming the throw to SS constituted P throwing to an unoccupied base. I told him thats incorrect and only at 1B does the fielder need to be in the vicinity to make a play on the runner in a pickoff situation.

What they claimed was not even logical. 2nd base was occupied, so to what unoccupied base were they referring? You were perfectly correct in your explanation.

I had a dugout argue the same exact thing last week, and I gave them a similar education about it being legal to throw to F4 or F6 in their normal position, and that the rule only applies to 1st base in that F3 must be close enough to have a possible play on the runner.