Balk then missed base

[Rita C]

The following is from another board.

Senior LL baseball, 4-man umpire crew, bottom of the 7th and visitors up by 1 run, 2 outs, 2-2 count on batter and R2. Pitcher begins his stretch and balks (not important how) but pitches anyway (I hate when they do that). Batter laces one to right-center. R2 scores and BR ends up at 2B.

DM comes out and asks U2, who called the balk, about the situation. U2 is not sure what to do so the crew huddles. PU correctly rules that, since the BR reached 1B and all other runners advanced at least one base safely that "play proceeds without reference to the balk."

DM goes to the mound for a quick conference with the pitcher and infielders and then goes to the dugout. Ball is put back into play when the pitcher toes the rubber, the pitcher disengages properly and throws to F3. F3 appeals that the BR missed 1B and U1 rings him up. That's 3 outs.

Ok, so now what?

Rita

[socalblue1]

PU correctly ruled correctly. Stop & think - what would have happened had no balk been called?

[Rita C]

Yes, PU was correct. But with the appeal, BR no longer reached first safely. The question is whether or not the APPROVED RULING applies to the BR or not and whether or not the balk is enforced.

Rita

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by Rita C

Yes, PU was correct. But with the appeal, BR no longer reached first safely. The question is whether or not the APPROVED RULING applies to the BR or not and whether or not the balk is enforced.

Rita

Don't have my LL rule book handy but should be the same as OBR.
OBR 8.05 (m) APPROVED RULING: A runner who misses the first base to which he is advancing and who is called out on appeal shall be considered as having advanced one base for the purpose of this rule.

The approved ruling doesn't say the BR must reach 1B safely. The appeal of BR missing 1B should be upheld. Game and let's get the heck out of Dodge.

[stratref]

Originally Posted by nopachunts

Don't have my LL rule book handy but should be the same as OBR.
OBR 8.05 (m) APPROVED RULING: A runner who misses the first base to which he is advancing and who is called out on appeal shall be considered as having advanced one base for the purpose of this rule.

The approved ruling doesn't say the BR must reach 1B safely. The appeal of BR missing 1B should be upheld. Game and let's get the heck out of Dodge.

Why game? Using OBR this is a time play, the batter runner who advances beyond first and is subsequently out upon appeal for missing first base is deemed to have reached first base for purposes of such time plays. The runner who reached home should still have their run count and we are going to extras.

Jasper

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by stratref

Why game? Using OBR this is a time play, the batter runner who advances beyond first and is subsequently out upon appeal for missing first base is deemed to have reached first base for purposes of such time plays. The runner who reached home should still have their run count and we are going to extras.

Jasper

It's not a time play. The batter's "acquisition" of 1st base is only relevant to determining whether to ignore or enforce the balk. Take the run off. SoCal said it best.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by Rita C

... The question is whether or not the APPROVED RULING applies to the BR or not and whether or not the balk is enforced.

Rita

Rita,

In the immortal words of John Prine:

"Well, a question aint really a question
If you know the answer too."

JM

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Rita C

But with the appeal, BR no longer reached first safely.

The issue of whether the BR "reached first safely" must be answered by asking: was the BR put out before reaching 1B?

If the answer is no, then for the purpose of the balk rule the BR reached 1B safely.

To think of it otherwise: any runner advancing past a base is considered to have legally acquired the base, pending a legally constituted appeal.

This ruling is also consistent with the spirit of the live-ball balk. That rule allows the offense to play a pitch after a balk, and we disregard the balk if the batter hits it well enough so that everybody can move up a base. These provisions of the balk rule do not excuse the runners for baserunning errors, interference, or other infractions.

The umpires got it right. Did it take all 4 of them to do so?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by stratref

Why game? Using OBR this is a time play, the batter runner who advances beyond first and is subsequently out upon appeal for missing first base is deemed to have reached first base for purposes of such time plays.

Not true. Appeal outs reflect the status of the runner before the base was missed (e.g., forced, or BR before first). You're apparently confusing this with other instances in which the runner is deemed to have reached the base.

The very first play under "how a run scores" covers this:
Example: One out, Jones on second, Smith on first. The batter, Brown, hits safely. Jones scores. Smith is out on the throw to the plate. Two outs. But Brown missed first base. The ball is thrown to first, an appeal is made, and Brown is out. Three outs. Since Jones crossed the plate during a play in which the third out was made by the batter-runner before he touched first base, Jones’ run does not count.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Not true. Appeal outs reflect the status of the runner before the base was missed (e.g., forced, or BR before first). You're apparently confusing this with other instances in which the runner is deemed to have reached the base.

Hm. Good point: I suppose OBR 8.05 (m) is the exception to the general rule then.

[ozzy6900]

From the MLBUM

7.8 PENALTY FOR BALK

..............A runner who misses the first base to which he is advancing and who is called out on appeal
shall be considered as having advanced one base for the purpose of this rule................................

So the result is, if a proper appeal is made, the BR is out as in any other situation and the run is removed. The balk was satisfied when the BR was assumed safe by the umpire when he passed 1st base.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Rita,

In the immortal words of John Prine:

"Well, a question aint really a question
If you know the answer too."

JM

Asking a question to get a discussion started. It's an unusual play.

Rita

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Rita C

Asking a question to get a discussion started. It's an unusual play.

Rita

And a good point of discussion at that

-Josh