Girardi/ARod double dip ejection

[Kevin Finnerty]

It was somewhat common knowledge in the 1970s and 80s that Pete Rose had a string of illegitimate children from coast-to-coast. He had a paternity suit array that would make a rock star proud. His womanizing became a true public spectacle by 1984, when he impregnated and married his Philadelphia Eagle cheerleader girlfriend.

Rose also was caught smuggling cash from Japanese autograph shows and selling memorabilia that was reported stolen or sold fraudulently claiming they were used in milestone games.

Pete is infamous for good reason. And his illustrious rampage was rather well-known while he was still in his prime and while he managed.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

It was somewhat common knowledge in the 1970s and 80s that Pete Rose had a string of illegitimate children from coast-to-coast. He had a paternity suit array that would make a rock star proud. His womanizing became a true public spectacle by 1984, when he impregnated and married his Philadelphia Eagle cheerleader girlfriend.

Rose also was caught smuggling cash from Japanese autograph shows and selling memorabilia that was reported stolen or sold fraudulently claiming they were used in milestone games.

Pete is infamous for good reason. And his illustrious rampage was rather well-known while he was still in his prime and while he managed.

What you write of here was not generally known. No doubt some, such as you, were aware, but, according to SI and others who kept track of such things on a current basis, it was not widely known.

Mr. Hustle was what most people saw and thought they knew, and it referred to on the field behavior, not in the alleys.

[Kevin Finnerty]

If you chose to ignore it, then it was not known to you. It was widely known.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

What you write of here was not generally known. No doubt some, such as you, were aware, but, according to SI and others who kept track of such things on a current basis, it was not widely known.

Mr. Hustle was what most people saw and thought they knew, and it referred to on the field behavior, not in the alleys.

I agree. I had never heard of illegitimate children, and I lived in Ohio (where Rose and the Reds played) and saw several Reds games in the 70s.

He was "Charlie Hustle."

[Kevin Finnerty]

Okay, if you never heard of it, then you chose not to.

I was a teenage baseball fan, for crying out loud, and I knew. I knew he was a scumbag and a fraud as far back as the mid-70s. It was public knowledge.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Okay, if you never heard of it, then you chose not to.

I was a teenage baseball fan, for crying out loud, and I knew. I knew he was a scumbag and a fraud as far back as the mid-70s. It was public knowledge.

I went to college with John Bench's former girlfriend, and she pretty much said the exact same things about Bench, Rose and several other Reds. She was a true Reds Annie.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Okay, if you never heard of it, then you chose not to.

That's absurd. I'm reporting my experience, not my choices. If you think I'm lying about what I heard, then I'll merely say that you're entitled to your opinion.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I apologize. I didn't mean to demean your personal feelings.

I think what I was trying to touch on is the natural unwillingness anyone can be expected to have to know the things about Rose that would tarnish the image of that all-out-all-the-time scrapper that we admired so much for his style of play and his being a big-time winner. I had it too, and I wasn't from Ohio. When I found out about him, it was a crusher, because I loved the game, and he played like I tried to play. I didn't dive all the time, but I learned to push the envelope by watching him. If I was a Reds fan, I would have been that much more devastated. So, I didn't mean to seem that haughty about it.

I have had to shut myself off to a lot of stuff about some guys just to admire them at all. And with all the cheating going on within the game now, it's even harder than ever before. Growing up worshiping guys like Roberto Clemente and Harmon Killebrew, I guess my standard got set too high. Today, you see guys like Torii Hunter and Vlad Guerrero and you have to hope that they're really as cool as they seem, because, in my case, my son worships them. They don't come any better than those two--or so it would appear.

But it all comes down to how guys go about keeping their private lives private. Public figures have a right to a private life. We have a right to be spared from knowing about their private lives. But when Rose went about his private life, he was far too reckless, and he disappointed a vast legion of admirers. On a smaller scale than you, I was one.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

(A)Okay, if you never heard of it, then (B)you chose not to.

1. B does not logically follow A.

2. I would bet that the majority of baseball fans, much like MByron and me, did not know of Pete's many flaws until his retirement. I know of sportswriters who have written that they did not know of these accusations during his playing days.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Ump153

1. B does not logically follow A.

2. I would bet that the majority of baseball fans, much like MByron and me, did not know of Pete's many flaws until his retirement. I know of sportswriters who have written that they did not know of these accusations during his playing days.

It was part of common baseball conversation as of the mid-70s. It became a hot topic when Rose was mysteriously allowed to sign elsewhere, and Sparky Anderson was mysteriously let go. That was a full seven years before he was done playing.

It's no crime to choose to ignore it, I just covered that rather extensively. Pete Rose was one of the iconic players of any generation. It's disappointing when any icon's a scumbag. Ask any former fan of Barry Bonds.

Rose's loose behavior was common knowledge. I would expect you to differ.

You know of sportswriters who didn't know ... That's a good one.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

It was part of common baseball conversation as of the mid-70s. It became a hot topic when Rose was mysteriously allowed to sign elsewhere, and Sparky Anderson was mysteriously let go. That was a full seven years before he was done playing.

It's no crime to choose to ignore it, I just covered that rather extensively. Pete Rose was one of the iconic players of any generation. It's disappointing when any icon's a scumbag. Ask any former fan of Barry Bonds.

Rose's loose behavior was common knowledge. I would expect you to differ.

You know of sportswriters who didn't know ... That's a good one.

{sigh}

Yes, I do. And it would be easy to quote them. It would be easy to cite his Sportsman of the Year and Man of the Year awards voted by sportswriters in the 70's. It would easy to quote from articles from the 70's. And it would easy to quote honest fans from the 70's.

It would be easy to debunk, to thinking people, you allegation of what was "common knowledge." It would be easy to quote fellow players from the 70's Reds who referred to him, pre manager days, as one of the greatest men then knew.

None of this says he was what people thought. We all know now that he wasn't. But, it would be easy to show that more didn't know that then, than did.

It would all be easy. But senseless. You still have this need to have the last word, to prove to the world that you are right and everyone else is wrong. So have it.

Or maybe this is just one of those times where, as you have said, we're "not even in the same league" as you. Maybe this is one of the many times you were better informed than the rest of the world. You knew more and better than most everyone else. Maybe that's so commonplace, you just assumed everyone knew what you knew.

I don't know.

I do know you can't tell people what they knew and what they didn't. Let me correct that, I guess you can tell them that, it just can't be done with certainty.

So, go ahead now. We're all waiting breathlessly for your final word and confirmation of how right you are and how wrong everyone else is.