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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 18, 2009, 07:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaco54 View Post
I have read posts before on PU throwing the ball back to the pitcher. Most PU's stated it helps speed up the game and keeps a flow to the game. Whether it does or doesn't depends on one's view point. I don’t think it does and if you think it does, it doesn’t generate much in saving time, etc. I tried it a few times and after that felt it best to leave it up to the catcher to throw the ball back. This is a pet peeve of mine and can not figure out why some umps insist on performing this act. I have witnessed in more than one situation where the PU beaned the pitcher, either by an errant throw by the ump or the pitcher not watching the ump. Why risk this? This past weekend, LL games, I saw some umps take two or three steps towards the pitcher, perform a crow hop and then gently tossed the ball to the pitcher. These guys looked ridiculous. Why risk embarrassing yourself, or risk a liability suit if you bean the kid and cause injury. Saw ML Ump throw the ball back to the pitcher while the F2 was still chasing down the live ball at the back stop on a dropped third strike. Now what? Just give the ball to the catcher and let him toss it back. That is why the catcher is there. I have witnessed umps, at all levels, fire the ball back to the pitcher, almost like a moment of going back in time, "Look at me I can still throw, yea I used to be a catcher or player, etc". What's the point here? What is that all about? That's not your job! Just give it to the catcher, take a breather, put your mask on and get ready for the next pitch. We talk about wannabe's in coaches and fans, I believe there are some of us wannabe's still trying to prove that we are just not umps but X players as well. Also, why risk injury? All it takes is one throw and you pull a muscle, tear a tendon and no more calling balls and strikes for awhile, unless you load up on pain meds. I think some umps need to "Just Get Over It!" and leave the ball playing to the ball players. In summary:
1. Why take the chance of a Liability Suit, injury to the pitcher... we all enjoy the game too much.
2. Embarrassement over missing the target - under or over throw.
3. Risk to injuring yourself.
4. Let the players play the game.

There I feel better!
YAWN!
Thank you for allowing me to waste 5 minutes of my life that I will never get back!

My God! We have a lot more important things to worry about on the field than this gobbily-goop!

There! Now I feel better!
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 18, 2009, 10:45am
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Ozzy ...

Ahem ...

It is in the umpire's job description to get a ball to the pitcher as soon as possible. If throwing it himself can accomplish this, and he's willing and capable, he can and should do it if he's so inclined.

And the liability question could possibly be a concern with a Little Leaguer with a lawyer dad, but come on ... a geezer throwing a ball to an accomplished athlete is not dangerous.

If you can throw a ball 60 feet with 99 percent accuracy, and look like a non-girl when you do it, then throw the ball back to save time if you want to. If you throw like a girl, or you make the pitcher reach too much, give it to the catcher. No big deal.

Last edited by Kevin Finnerty; Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 10:49am.
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 18, 2009, 11:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty View Post
Ozzy ...

Ahem ...

It is in the umpire's job description to get a ball to the pitcher as soon as possible.
Here it is Ozzy, just in case you missed it.

9.00—The Umpire.

9.04
(a) The umpire-in-chief shall stand behind the catcher. (He usually is called the plate umpire.) His duties shall be to:
(1) Take full charge of, and be responsible for, the proper conduct of the game;
(1a) The plate umpire is responsible to get a ball to the pitcher as soon as possible
(2) Call and count balls and strike;
(3) Call and declare fair balls and fouls except those commonly called by field umpires;
(4) Make all decisions on the batter;
(5) Make all decisions except those commonly reserved for the field umpires;
(6) Decide when a game shall be forfeited;
(7) If a time limit has been set, announce the fact and the time set before the game starts;
(8) Inform the official scorer of the official batting order, and any changes in the lineups and batting order, on request;
(9) Announce any special ground rules, at his discretion.
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 18, 2009, 11:31am
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Actually, you are not even throwing the ball 60 ft. most times. The pitcher usually comes half way to the plate to recieve my throws, after I uncork a few...those knuckleballs are unpredictable.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 18, 2009, 11:40am
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Red face OBR - Rule 9.04 (a) 1(a) -Missing From Rule Book

Is the rule you quoted part of the LL rules...Cause I missed it somewhere...In the copy of the rule book I have, OBR 2008 edition, Rule 9.04 (a) 1(a) must have been left out...or maybe there is an updated version....
  #21 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 18, 2009, 11:44am
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I'm in agreement with most here. I can throw back and will when F2 is busy.

However I don't do it all the time, by choice, because
a) a colleague broke the nose of an F1; was sued for $2m, insurance settled for 800 large. Maybe I am covered, but that is at the minimum a hassle I want to avoid (experienced PU to DII pitcher, yup it happens).
b) coaches yell at F2 when he throws a bad one; on occasion I have thrown a bad one, they yell at me too. Don't want to give them that chance.

On the other hand another PU colleague who had pitched in MiLB threw them back at (adult) pitchers who complained about balls & strikes. Threw it hard at their feet to make 'em dance!

Last edited by GerryB; Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 11:47am. Reason: More info...
  #22 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 18, 2009, 11:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GerryB View Post
I'm in agreement with most here. I can throw back and will when F2 is busy.

However I don't do it all the time, by choice, because
a) a colleague broke the nose of an F1; was sued for $2m, insurance settled for 800 large. Maybe I am covered, but that is at the minimum a hassle I want to avoid (experienced PU to DII pitcher, yup it happens).
Could you provide the name of the pitcher or umpire or team, approximate date and jurisdiction, please.

An exhaustive search for "umpire liability" lawsuits conducted last year did not reveal this one.

Last edited by MrUmpire; Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 12:09pm.
  #23 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 18, 2009, 12:46pm
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Hmmm,

I have not thrown a ball back to F1 since August 8, 1981.

I was told by two MLB catchers that they (and all other catchers they knew) want to throw the ball back.

Both catchers noted that in the "olden days" umpires were supposed to 'prove' they were athletic enough to be on the field.

Since the early 1980s umpires are not required by MLB to throw the ball back (as an aside at umpire school in the 1970s not only were umpires required to throw the ball back to the pitcher they were also required to throw the ball right handed ONLY).

Quote:
"Could you provide the name of the pitcher or umpire or team, approximate date and jurisdiction, please.

"An exhaustive search for "umpire liability" lawsuits conducted last year did not reveal this one."
This obviously wasn't an NFHS game as they have no record of anything like this.

I too would like a little more information since I have three articles due for High School Today that deal with official/participant safety.
  #24 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 18, 2009, 12:52pm
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Thanks Tim for some of the background info. I have learned over the years that baseball has a long historial life to it that continues to evolve and there is usually a reason or explanation to the rules and traditions to the game. Appreciate the info.

Still can not find Rule 9.04(a) 1(a) OBR...lq
  #25 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 18, 2009, 12:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim C View Post

This obviously wasn't an NFHS game as they have no record of anything like this.

I too would like a little more information since I have three articles due for High School Today that deal with official/participant safety.
According to the poster it was a D-II game. I sent an inquiry in to NCAA asking what they have on this. It could be recent, I guess, but it wasn't included in information provided earlier, which was supposed to be inclusive to 2007.
  #26 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 18, 2009, 01:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaco54 View Post
Still can not find Rule 9.04(a) 1(a) OBR
Keep looking. You'll find it right next to the keys to the batter's box.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 18, 2009, 01:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve View Post
Keep looking. You'll find it right next to the keys to the batter's box.
I wike u. Yu catch on reel quik!

Yu veery funny!!!!!
  #28 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 18, 2009, 02:00pm
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Clearly, there are two schools of thought on this issue. In one case, I have been told that under no circumstances are we to throw a ball back to the pitcher, and when I work in that environment, thats what I do. I also was dinged on an evaluation for NOT throwing a ball to the pitcher while the F2 was waddling back to the backstop to pick up a throw. Their comment was , " why just stand there with your finger in your ...??". The first comment was for youth ball and the second was for HS. Your mileage may vary.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 18, 2009, 02:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jicecone View Post
Here it is Ozzy, just in case you missed it.

9.00—The Umpire.

9.04
(a) The umpire-in-chief shall stand behind the catcher. (He usually is called the plate umpire.) His duties shall be to:
(1) Take full charge of, and be responsible for, the proper conduct of the game;
(1a) The plate umpire is responsible to get a ball to the pitcher as soon as possible
(2) Call and count balls and strike;
(3) Call and declare fair balls and fouls except those commonly called by field umpires;
(4) Make all decisions on the batter;
(5) Make all decisions except those commonly reserved for the field umpires;
(6) Decide when a game shall be forfeited;
(7) If a time limit has been set, announce the fact and the time set before the game starts;
(8) Inform the official scorer of the official batting order, and any changes in the lineups and batting order, on request;
(9) Announce any special ground rules, at his discretion.
Translation: What Ozzy said was funny as hell. After laughing, I cleared my throat, thus the AHEM.

Then, to address the original topic, I wrote what I wrote. Sorry the term "Job description" was too literal for you, and sorry that it seemed that I was in conflict with Ozzy.


SHEESH!
  #30 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 18, 2009, 02:32pm
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I was told the story in 2000. Not sure how much before that it occurred.
And, I don't feel the liberty to go with names. Sorry.

Last edited by GerryB; Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 02:38pm.
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