Rookie League question

[RKBUmp]

Went and watched a rookie league game between the Indians and the Dodgers last night and came away with a question.

Runner coming home, catcher is in front of the plate on 1st base line, plenty of room for runner to get to plate without contacting the catcher. The throw is cut and would not have made it in time anyway, runner lowers his shoulder and just mows down the catcher. He physically had to go out of his way to make contact. Ump didnt say a word, but there were a lot of rather loud BS'S coming from the dugout. Is there no rules in minor league ball that protects the catcher or another player in similar situation?

Ultimate result of this, 2 innings later, the offender comes to bat and 1st pitch sails over his head, 2nd pitch is a strike, 3rd pitch gets him right between the shoulder blades. Obviously a payback and now the ump goes out and has some words with the pitcher.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Sounds like the players took care of it themselves, which is the way it's handled in pro ball. I don't think I would have said anything to the pitcher. Now if the other team retaliated further by throwing at one of their batters, then at that time I would either eject or warn both benches at that time, depending on the circumstances.

[RKBUmp]

Thanks, kind of figured that was the case. Any lower level of game I have seen it would have been an immediate ejection, but the ump didnt even flinch.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Thanks, kind of figured that was the case. Any lower level of game I have seen it would have been an immediate ejection, but the ump didnt even flinch.

Yes. That's a MAJOR difference between pro ball and any level of amateur ball, from NCAA on down.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Yes. That's a MAJOR difference between pro ball and any level of amateur ball, from NCAA on down.

Right! If you are being paid to play, then this is how it works - deal with it.

However, in amateur baseball, this cannot and should not be allowed or tolerated!

[jicecone]

I worked a semi-pro league for a few years with the same rules. One game the catcher got BLASTED twice in the same game. About all I could do was pickup his mask , ask him how he was doing and hope the glaze in his eyes didn't prevent him from catching the ball and hitting me.

The league finnally realized that a lot of their players actually worked for a living and needed to show up for work the next day after a game. The League finally changed the rules, of course after someone got hurt.

[RPatrino]

While I would not expect EJ's from the runners actions alone, I would fully expect EJ's for the fight that followed. I played for a coach who would bench you if you didn't protect yourself in those kind of situations.

[BaBa Booey]

Don't confuse being a pro with knowing how to play the game. In fact, that's why rookie ball exists, because if you watch the games consistently, it is very clear that these players DON'T know how to play the game, and that's why I would have liked to see the umpire take some action here. After the collision at the plate, if there was jockeying from the bench, he could have issued warnings (which the NY-Penn League demands of you in a situation like this). Even if there were no warnings after the collision, when a pitch goes over the guys head, he has to go. Throwing at someone's head should not be tolerated at ANY level, and the players need to learn that. It was negligent by the plate umpire to not do anything after the pitch went over his head. If he threw at his lower back, ok. That's part of the game. Headhunting is not. He gave the pitcher another free pass to take another shot at the guys head. How would the report have looked if the batter got hit in the head on the second attempt and it seriously injured him? What kind of game management is that? There's a difference between letting the players handle things and letting things get out of control. It would have looked much better to his supervisors if the umpire was aggressive in the situation and sent that pitcher to the showers and put an end to that nonsense right there.

[TussAgee11]

I would have run F1 the second he threw at the guys head.

Remember, the OP said that the batter was the guy who ran F2 over.

Sorry, gotta disguise it a bit better than that.

If he plunks the back, fine, whatever.

I'm normally the type of guy that says "allow both sides to get their shot in, and warn" particularly at higher levels. But you can't ignore going at a guy's head when it is super obvious as it was in the OP.

If you let it go, you are then allowing the other team to go back at somebody else's head, and then you have real problems.

Gotta know who the batter is in this situation. If its another batter 2 innings later you probably have to let it go. But the same player + head = instant EJ.

[jwwashburn]

How do you not toss the runner?

Dump him. This is not part of the game.

What if he did it to the first baseman who had his back to him (and not in his way) while he was rounding the bag on a single to LF?

[DG]

Sounds like the Rookie League pitcher did not have control of his pitches. It took him 3 to hit the batter and the 2nd was a gross miss, a strike.

Throwing at the head should not be tolerated and should have at least resulted in a warning, if not EJ. The pitcher would have appeared to stood up for his teammate by throwing at the batter even if he missed, got ejected for it. Having said nothing how would the PU justify a toss on the 3rd pitch for hitting the batter in the back. If warn on the first pitch the EJ on the 3rd is easy.

A good pitcher will hit the batter on the first pitch somewhere below the shoulders.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

How do you not toss the runner?

Dump him. This is not part of the game.

What if he did it to the first baseman who had his back to him (and not in his way) while he was rounding the bag on a single to LF?

This isn't high school or select travel teams, coach. Pro ball has long differentiated between home and the other bases when it comes to hard hits by runners.

This is rookie league. This is high school draftees, 16 year olds from South America and 19 year old umpires fresh from PBUC. Everyone is learning and trying to show they understand the pro game.

I see no issue with the runner.

[jwwashburn]

The guy named Ump calls me a coach and HE argues for letting a player get away with the worst sort of rodent behavior imaginable. Twilight Zone post there.

You see no issue with the runner?

The issue is that he went out of his way to flatten a guy when there was not even a play.

I do not remember seeing that in pro baseball any time in the last 10-15 years. I have watched a lot of baseball.

It is one thing to allow it when there is a play, it is complete another thing to allow an assault that has nothing to do with a play.

It is complete BS that this is part of the game. There is no rule that the First Baseman cannot flatten the first base coach while coming back from going after a foul ball that went into the stands. I would eject that guy, also.

9.01
(c) Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules.
(d) Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field. If an umpire disqualifies a player while a play is in progress, the disqualification shall not take effect until no further action is possible in that play.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

The guy named Ump calls me a coach and HE argues for letting a player get away with the worst sort of rodent behavior imaginable. Twilight Zone post here.

Your lack of understanding of what contstitutes "Rodent behavior" betrays you as a coach, as do many of your posts.

9.01
(c) Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules.

And?



New to the game or new to reading?

I'll repeat, it has been a long standing practice in PRO ball to treat contact at home differently than at any other base. This practice and tradition has been accepted by players, managers, umpires, umpire trainers, umpire supervisors and the rules committee. No amount of whining from an amateur coach is going to change that.

Players at the Rookie leagues are learning how to play as pros. They will also learn how to deal with players like this.

Sorry if they don't perform to your version of baseball.

Now then, in T-ball, you'd be correct.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Now then, in T-ball, you'd be correct.

It also would be correct in high school, college, Legion, summer wood bat, and adult leagues. Why would you even mention T-ball, as no one here works T-ball?