Rookie Question

[Rizzo21]

Hi All,

I've appreciated reading many of your posts in the last month or so. I've recently become registered as an official and am learning at an exponential rate, this forum has been part of that learning. I love the game of basketball and have really enjoyed the informal officiating I've done already. Doing it "officially" will be nice when the time comes but I need more study before I do it for pay (money being about last on my list for reasons I'm interested).

My first question comes from a pick-up game I was playing in last night. Guy saves a loose ball (he did not previously control) from going out of bounds along the sideline and his momentum carries him out of bounds. He returns with one foot inbounds at which point he gains control of the ball (no one else has since touched it) by dribbling. Everyone screams he "can't do that" and the ball turns over. I couldn't step in and argue because I just didn't know yet what the call would be.

What would be the ruling?

Last night was interesting because there were three other instances I was able to lend my two cents worth to: A "kick", a "self-pass" and the "verticallity rule". Feels good to know what's going on.

[zebraman]

Perfectly legal.

Z

[Jimgolf]

Don't confuse rules with pickup games. Honor the call, no matter how bad it is, and you'll have a better game. Arguments always ruin pickup games.

I've found through the years that bad calls are negated by bad plays frequently enough that arguing is a waste of time.

It is better to play and live with a bad call than end the game with an argument, which frequently happens.

You can't educate pickup players.

[Rizzo21]

I respectfully disagree a bit here. The guys that play are mostly in their 30's and 40's and seem open to someone who knew what they were talking about. If I had known the ruling and stepped in, I believe they would have listened. I suppose it depends on the crowd though and what's at stake (you play two games and leave the court win or lose so it wasn't TOO intense).

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Rizzo21
I respectfully disagree a bit here. The guys that play are mostly in their 30's and 40's and seem open to someone who knew what they were talking about. If I had known the ruling and stepped in, I believe they would have listened. I suppose it depends on the crowd though and what's at stake (you play two games and leave the court win or lose so it wasn't TOO intense).

I concur...there's a group of friends that I play with who now turn to me and ask "is that right" when someone does call something unusual. In the beginning, my comments were not well accepted (didn't cause a problem but just not believed) until they realized that my "rulings" just as often were against the team I was on as they were for.

They know they'll get a straight answer from me no matter if it goes for or against the team I'm on. The fact that I'll just as readily give up the ball yields a lot of credibility to what I say. They now trust me and have actually asked several question on some of the common myths.

[Adam]

It depends on the sitch. When I play, the players all insist that you can't retrieve your own airball. I've told them it's legal, but they play that way.

[Adam]

Originally posted by refTN
Zebraman I was just wondering how is this perfectly legal. The man who last touched the ball can not come back in bounds and be the first one to touch it. If you have the rule book number I would greatly apppreciate that.

This is not a rule in high school ball. As long as the player has reestablished position inbounds (one foot on the floor in bounds with nothing touching out of bounds.
I think the first to touch violation is strictly a women's college rule, so if you're playing by women's rules, you can call the violation.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Snaqwells
I think the first to touch violation is strictly a women's college rule, so if you're playing by women's rules, you can call the violation.

It's an NCAA (not just NCAAW) rule, but it doen's apply in the situation presented. It only applies when a player goes out of bounds by his / her own volition (think the "run around the screen on the baseline" play).

[Redhouse]

no book with me, but the rule in HS (Fed) is that as long as your momentum carries you out of bounds and you come back in and one of your feet are inbounds then you may be the first person to touch the ball.

[Adam]

Originally posted by refTN
So what is the official high school rule then?

In high school (USA), the rule is that as long as a player has established position in bounds, he may touch the ball. There is no rule regarding being the "first to touch."
Establishing position requires only that a player be touching the floor in bounds, and having no part of him touching out of bounds. IOW, one foot down "in" and the other foot in the air is ok.

[Adam]

Originally posted by Redhouse
no book with me, but the rule in HS (Fed) is that as long as your momentum carries you out of bounds and you come back in and one of your feet are inbounds then you may be the first person to touch the ball.

The rule says nothing about momentum carrying you out. That is not a requirement. There is no rule that says anything about being the first to touch. Therefore, on requirements must be met to be able to.

[Redhouse]

Like I said I do not have my rulebook with me.

In the situation descibed it seems as though it would have to be momentum that carried the player out of bounds. If the player went OOB on their own it would be a technical foul.

[Adam]

This may be true, but it has nothing to do with the player being the first to touch the ball.
It is supposed to be a technical foul before the player even returns to the court.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by refTN
So what is the official high school rule then?

Case book play 7.1.1SitB