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Yes, intentionally interfering is interference. Why are you making this more difficult than it really is? If the ball just happens to hit the base coach (or on deck hitter), it is not interference. Damn, this is really starting to get old.
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Matthew 15:14, 1 Corinthians 1:23-25 |
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Obviously the situation you described is not interference. I don't think that is what SAump was saying. He was talking about intentional interference. Hard to know what anybody's argument is though with an entire thread deleted, and this one filled with monstrously long posts.
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Matthew 15:14, 1 Corinthians 1:23-25 |
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Not correct
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If he wants to put words in my mouth, the base coach or ODH is just happening to be 20 feet from home plate. SDS states 5.08 protect the umpire, the base coach and the ODH. Have you seen many umpires hit by an errant relay throw 10-20 feet from the plate. What is the base coach or ODH doing that close to HP {trying to umpire}? This is interference with the defense. The ODH was excited because a hit was about to score two runs. In his excitement, he forgot to pay attention to the incoming throw and was "accidentally" hit while supporting his teammate who may have scored on the play. SDS want to enforce unintentional interference 5.08 which amounts to no interference, play off the deflection of BC or ODH. Wrong or right? He has a gathering of supporters. ODH just happened to be there accidentally?
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SAump Last edited by SAump; Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 10:43pm. |
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Have you ever umpired a single game? The on-deck hitter has a job to do with runners trying to score, and that is telling them what to do. To do so, he'll often be 10-20 feet from the plate. That is his job.
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"I don't think I'm very happy. I always fall asleep to the sound of my own screams...and then I always get woken up to the sound of my own screams. Do you think I'm unhappy?" |
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Experience
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Come Jurassic Park, fess up, as old as you are, ever happen once? I can see the empathy for the ODH oozing from your eyes. Are those teardrops? Someone has to protect him, it might as well be you. Do you expect a college athlete to be so dumb as to interfere with a throw to HP that a rule is needed to protect him from unintentionally interfering with a throw. Does this actually seem reasonable, i.e. base on reality of 5.08 or previous experience of all our readers? I would eject him and enjoy it at the same moment. How many times have I said that. Coach, you better warm up another batter. This one here is going to go sit on the other side of the fence for his safety.
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SAump Last edited by SAump; Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 07:36am. |
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"I don't think I'm very happy. I always fall asleep to the sound of my own screams...and then I always get woken up to the sound of my own screams. Do you think I'm unhappy?" |
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5.08 Bite the Dust?
3.17 Players and substitutes of both teams shall confine themselves to their team’s benches unless actually participating in the play or preparing to enter the game, or coaching at first or third base. No one except players, substitutes, managers, coaches, trainers and bat boys shall occupy a bench during a game.
PENALTY: For violation the umpire may, after warning, remove the offender from the field. 3.16 protect ODH in OP? 3.15 (except members of the offensive team participating in the game, or a coach in the coach’s box, or an umpire) NOTE: See Rule 7.11 for individuals excepted above, also see Rule 7.08 (b). Not an ounce of integrity, a pound of authoritative opinion or a ton of actually in the entire lot. Does ODH out of ODH area have free range? Is participation by the ODH allowed? Is there a rule that answers these question? Yes
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SAump Last edited by SAump; Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 07:34am. |
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"R1 (perhaps other runners). Ball hit to right field. R1 arrives at third and rounds as the throw from F9 sail in from the outfield. The throw is off target (about 15-20 feet up the third baseline from HP). Meanwhile, the ODH leave the ODC to retrieve the bat from the HP area. The throw from F9 passes F2 untouched and strikes the bat the ODH is holding. The ball goes into DBT. Neither umpire felt the ODH contacted the thrown ball intentionally." Is that right? Am I missing something? In which post do you have an opinion/interpretation from Jim Evans, Wendelstedt boys, etc? I can't find it when I read through the thread -Josh |
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I think the closet place to find anything from the big boys on this is to have a citation from the MLBUM. That's how Evans and Weldelstedt will interpret it. What about PBUC?
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It's like Deja Vu all over again |
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Final Chapter {Fingers Crossed}
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The defense is horrified by the umpires reaction that a hustling B/R at 2B may be allowed to walk in through no fault of their own. Doing what they practice without ODH interference. I maintain the ODH is not excused for his actions. Although he is a non-participant, the court record indicates that he indeed lost that status sometime between ODH and hit by a thrown ball. I maintain the real definition of NO interference has been sanitized to protect ODH. Although I state, treat as ball boy or coach and kill it. Others say allow play to continue. The umpire crew also enforced penalty for interference by a member of the offense team. Everyone of you maintain they erred. I maintain their ruling is justified by rule. You do not provide valid support to justify play on. I state you weave a bunch of small parts into a whole. It sounds good, but it falls apart on paper. Its been a task to get you boys to accept the black and white parts of a book. You insist on providing the gray matter for discussion. This is the actual opposite of the rising fast ball discussion. SAump supporting C&T of the game and you supporting "inventions of fantasy" baseball. Roder (1) blatantly and avoidably hinders [ a fielder's try to field a fair or catchable batted ball or ] thrown ball. A coach must try to avoid a fielder trying to field. If he tries to avoid, but contacts a fielder, it is not interference. In most cases, a coach who does not try to avoid contact with a fielder will have interfered. [5.08] [7.11] Pete Booth and DG brought this up for consideration and both were told that it did not apply because of NO possible "play" occurring at TOI. That is one of many invalid buzzwords designed to absolve ODH from "participation" in the OP. SLAS provides rule support removing the fuzziness from the words like unintentional, play, home plate area, bat in hands, ODH-batboy, etc to employ 7.11. The ODH has to clear the ODC (BRD), not the bat (unsupported). There is no evidence supporting Matt's comments about coaching at HP (unsupported), although substantiated by Bobbybannaduck, rule 7.09d still applies to the OP..
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SAump Last edited by SAump; Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 01:46pm. |
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As I stated in the other thread, call INT on the bat. Throw the SOB out of the game until it can learn to keep its a$$ out of the way. Make the ODH get a new bat until his other one can behave better. Remove the runners. Put the 3B coach on 3rd. Put the 1B coach on 1B. Let them run and try to score. And, tell F3 to make better throws or get off the field as well. Tell F2 to learn to get in front of that bad throw or he will join F3.
Did I miss anything other than what the correct call is?
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Question everything until you get an irrefutable or understandable answer...Don't settle for "That's Just the Way it is" |
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