left foot

[DG]

RH pitcher facing 3b, left front on the front edge of the rubber, right foot 15 inches behind the rubber. Any runner fooled by that is not paying attention. He can't pitch from that position. Can't see a balk for attempting a putout.

[alex7]

Now that I'm told he's facing third, I'm thinking...

If he's not considered engaged with his left foot on the rubber, then I guess he's just an infielder and can do whatever.

If he is deemed to have engaged the rubber with his left foot...

1.) You give him the FED balk for not engaging the rubber with his throwing side's foot.

Cbfoulds, if his left foot is ON the rubber, I'm not sure that's the same as straddling the rubber. This doesn't seem to be a case of a guy just getting comfortable into his stretch position, where he can do a a little funky footwork. The OP says the guy "mounted" the rubber (insert sex joke here).

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I also think it is an illegal attempt to deceive the runner by intentionally contacting the pitcher's plate and simulating a pitching position.

No rule prohibits simulating a pitching position. 8.05(g) prohibits simulating a pitching motion while off the rubber. ("It is a balk when...The pitcher makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch while he is not touching the pitcher’s plate.")

If F1 has the ball, he may straddle the rubber. No balk. As with any other pitch, he is subject to the time limit between pitches.

[kheisner]

Yes, this is a balk. Pivot foot must be the foot touching the rubber. For a right-handed pitcher the pivot foot is the right foot!!

This is a trick I used to have my pitchers pull when the opposing team had a fast runner with a big lead-off at 2nd base. We picked off a few. Our right-handed pitcher would face 1st base and go to the set-position with his left-foot on the rubber, then he would throw straight back to second base. Umpires or the opposing team never noticed the deception. I'd call the play from the dugout, code word was "Convertible". It worked great and I never had a balk called. I had opposing pitchers after the game ask for me to teach them that great move. (I never did) One umpire at a tourney who umped 3 of our games finally noticed the deception, but he didn't know if it was a balk or not.

Just recently when taking my state high school umpire's test did I learn it was a balk!!

[cbfoulds]

Originally Posted by kheisner

Yes, this is a balk. Pivot foot must be the foot touching the rubber. For a right-handed pitcher the pivot foot is the right foot!!

This is a trick I used to have my pitchers pull when the opposing team had a fast runner with a big lead-off at 2nd base. We picked off a few. Our right-handed pitcher would face 1st base and go to the set-position with his left-foot on the rubber, then he would throw straight back to second base. Umpires or the opposing team never noticed the deception. I'd call the play from the dugout, code word was "Convertible". It worked great and I never had a balk called. I had opposing pitchers after the game ask for me to teach them that great move. (I never did) One umpire at a tourney who umped 3 of our games finally noticed the deception, but he didn't know if it was a balk or not.

Just recently when taking my state high school umpire's test did I learn it was a balk!!

1st: You are an idiot. I hope you will not umpire with the same attitude and ignorance you coached.
2d: Your umpires were clueless: congratulations.
3d: The reason what your pitcher did was a balk had nothing to do with this thread. He simulated a pitching motion [coming "set"] while not legally in contact with the rubber. Where his non-pivot foot was, or which foot was in [incidental] contact with the rubber really does not matter very much.
4th: the act described in the OP [RHP, straddling the rubber, facing (roughly) 3d base, "free" foot in the crater infront of the rubber (and incidentally touching the front edge), hands at his side] IS NOT a balk because it violates none of the pitching regs which define what a balk is.

[kheisner]

Honestly, if you are not looking for it......you probably won't notice it. Maybe it has been done to you and you didn't see it. When we did it,(40-50 times) neither the umpire or the other team ever noticed.

This move was taught to me by a college pitcher......I asked him if it was a balk...he said he didn't know if it was a balk or not.......but he did tell me that his team would do it frequently and his coach didn't think it was a balk....and....no umpire had ever called it.
Like I said, until I started to study for my IHSA test......I never knew it was a balk.

I monitor this site and other umpires sites so I can be knowledgeable of the rules. Unlike you folks......most umpires I have encountered (rec, travel, & high school) are limited in their umpiring knowledge. It is very frustrating sometimes....many of these guys are out there just for the pay. Recently I had an umpire tell me that "the hands are part of the bat"!! I didn't argue with the idiot, but I did quietly tell him that was a myth and he could check it out on the internet.
I'm a coach, and you don't know what I have to put up with.......I don't argue much.....I carry rule books with me......and I have filed a protest (I won the protest) when an improper "fielders balk" was called in a Bronco game against my team.

I always enjoy having knowledgeable umpires at my games......however it is not as frequent as I would like.

[mbyron]

You're kidding, right? I know the pitcher's number, handedness, whether he sets up on the 1B side or 3B side of the ruber, what his 3 moves to 1B are, and how he comes set. I can't imagine an umpire who works above 13U not noticing what you're talking about.

Which is, as Carter points out, completely irrelevant to the OP, where F1 is merely straddling the rubber.

[kheisner]

First of all....go back to the original post. The question was.....can a right-handed pitcher set-up with his left-foot on the rubber to gain an advantage for a pick-off move to second base. That is exactly what I am writing about. Most of you didn't totally understand the question because you don't think you have ever saw it done. This exact situation was addressed this year in the 2009 NFHS case study book.

I kid you not.....my last post was total truth......former college pitcher taught me what his coach had taught his pitchers for years. This pitcher showed me how easy it was to do in a practice game his son was pitching......I was looking for it and I missed it the first time!!

Honestly....if you are not looking for it....you might miss it.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mbyron

You're kidding, right? I know the pitcher's number, handedness, whether he sets up on the 1B side or 3B side of the ruber, what his 3 moves to 1B are, and how he comes set. I can't imagine an umpire who works above 13U not noticing what you're talking about.

Which is, as Carter points out, completely irrelevant to the OP, where F1 is merely straddling the rubber.

No feeding the trolls, unless you give them Purina Troll Chow.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

No feeding the trolls, unless you give them Purina Troll Chow.

Yeahuh. Sheesh.