Double Play or Not?

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I tried appealing to common sense and fair play in earlier posts. It's no use. Everybody wants an easy out on this play. One out closer to the parking lot I suppose.

Steve,

I could be wrong, but mmtech doesn't strike me as a troll. If he were, he likely would have been back "pouring gasoline".

You are correct that there are many aspects of the play which he did NOT describe that would be essential to ruling on the play.

I have no idea if this was a play he saw, had related to him, or created as a "hypothetical".

To me, that's not important. The "interesting question" that the OP raises is, "Since the runner is not obligated to leave his base, and the fielder is not obligated to avoid the runner, how do you properly rule this sitch if you judge no intent by either party?"

I also agree with your kind of "real world" point about, "how can a fielder knock a runner off his base, make a catch, and come back and tag the runner without skippin' a beat" ? (if I may paraphrase). It would certainly be "unusual".

But, let's say it did happen, no intent, either party. Whatever you call, you're likely to be having a "conversation" with somebody. In my suggested ruling, I feel like I've got a "rules basis" for ruling it a train wreck. All I'm hearing with the "protect the runner" ruling is, "common sense and fair play".

They seem to believe that the "special exception" for the runner, that he need not avoid the fielder in this "special case" (i.e., in contact with his base) also imposes an obligation on a "protected fielder" to avoid the runner in this special case. It does not.

I wouldn't be surprised if I never saw this happen in a game. Hadn't considered the question before mmtech's post. At least those of who have participated in this thread know what the relevant rules are (and perhaps some that are "not so much"). I thought it was a good discussion.

JM

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by umpjong

I just love the way some would just brush aside this mans credentials.
BRUCE MARKUSEN was the Manager of Programs at the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum in Cooperstown, New York from 1994 to 2004. He is the author of Baseball's Last Dynasty: Charlie Finley's Oakland A's (which won the prestigious Seymour Award from the Society for American Baseball Research), Roberto Clemente, and The Orlando Cepeda Story. For the Hall of Fame, he has written numerous articles for publication, edited the Hall of Fame's Yearbook and quarterly newsletter, narrated Hall of Fame video productions, and interviewed most of the current living Hall inductees. Markusen is the regularly featured co-host (along with ESPN's Billy Sample) of the "Hall of Fame Hour" on MLB Radio.

I think he has a bit more credibility than any of us when it comes to MLB concerns. If you can produce evidence to support your claims of him being the hack you propose, bring it on. I think you will find (as I did) that he is very well respected in MLB circles. (he has been and is still hired by MLB so take your best shot) You obviously dont want to give him his due respect because he doesnt portray your opinions.......

Bottom line is that there are obviously two camps here that are set in their ways. I am very comfortable with the application/interpretations of the OBR and the only credible source (written) that has been presented. (Please present someone that contradicts him if you can)

Credible to you.

Nobody is saying he can't write, but not everyone who works for MLB is a rules expert.