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Mon Jun 23, 2003, 10:09pm
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a friendly rules discussion that i have had recently with a friend, who is not an umpire, regarding the pivot of a double play in major league baseball. i see things as an umpire and he has a by the rules attitude.
on a "routine" or "taylor made" double play ball, we have all seen in the bigs that some middle-men take the feed and throw to first, while recording a force out at second, and had never touched the bag. kind of that "vicinity rule" that we have all talked about at one time or another, but you will never find in a rule book. my stance is that it a safety issue. those are million dollar legs being cut out and no one wants to get hurt and no one wants to hurt anyone else, usually. so, on an out that is basically a "gimmie" we may see a fielder only straddle the bag and throw to first. thus giving the firlder a faster and more nimble escape from a sliding runner as opposd to the latter in which may increase the odds of meeting that sliding runner. the other view..."those are the rules!" "If you get hurt, that's part of the game and if you don't like it, don't play." sort of a harsh view, but he has a valid point because it is in the rules. i see it as one of the attractive nuances of baseball, following "unwritten" rules like this one and the phantom tag<---whole other subject. what is you all's take?
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It's nothing until you call it! 
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Tue Jun 24, 2003, 12:23am
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Evolution! For some reason or another, that tag has evolved into a "phantom" tag. For right or wrong, it is part of the game at the "upper" level. Probably for reasons that we don't know...or should know.
But at the lower levels, those aren't million dollar legs. They need to know the fundamentals and then reach the level of "phantom" tags.
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Tue Jun 24, 2003, 08:45am
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My thread, I guess I failed to mention, is entirely based upon the major leagues. Those million dollar legs I referred to are million dollar legs.
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It's nothing until you call it!
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Tue Jun 24, 2003, 10:53am
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I think that if the umps see the pivot man clearly off the bag, they do not give the out. But if the foot is close and it's hard to tell, the benefit of the doubt goes to the fielder. Often the fielder places his foot next to the back edge of the bag. Who knows for sure whether the foot is actually touching?
Many of what people think are "vicinity" plays are actually very quickly and accurately performed but give the illusion that the fielder was not on the base. Slow motion replay usually shows (as in the play at 1B where F3 appears to leave early) that the fielder did get the bag.
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greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide!
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Tue Jun 24, 2003, 02:55pm
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It's not only MLB, but in all pro ball. Many times it's not even "in the vicinity" at 2B. I've seen pivot men at least three feet on the 1B side of the bag when they get the throw. That's a bit too much. Even to protect those expensive gams.
Bob
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Tue Jun 24, 2003, 02:56pm
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It's not only MLB, but in all pro ball. Many times it's not even "in the vicinity" at 2B. I've seen pivot men at least three feet on the 1B side of the bag when they get the throw. That's a bit too much. Even to protect those expensive gams.
"Slow motion replay usually shows (as in the play at 1B where F3 appears to leave early) that the fielder did get the bag." Actually that's a "given" in pro ball. As long as the throw beats the BR, and is on target. Again, this is for protection. Bob
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