Can the Ball Change Possession during a Dead Ball?

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Welpe

There can only be a change of possession during a live ball and the defense must have "clean hands" prior to the CoP. If there is a foul by team A prior to the CoP and a foul by team B after, team B may decline the penalty and keep the ball.

So this COULD possibly result in a 30 yard gain but, only if your live ball become dead, correct.

[johnnyg08]

I think you're missing the "resuming play" portion of my post. When we "resume" play, we have a balk...if the pitcher represents that the ball is in his glove, he is on or astride the rubber, umpire points the ball back in play, the ball is not in the pitcher's glove or hand, I'm pretty sure that's not legal.

[Welpe]

Johnny, if the pitcher does not have possession of the ball, you cannot legally make the ball live. If he toes the rubber without the ball and the umpire declares "Play!", only to find out the ball is somewhere else, the ball was not made live legally so it is still dead.

[Ump Rube]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I think you're missing the "resuming play" portion of my post. When we "resume" play, we have a balk...if the pitcher represents that the ball is in his glove, he is on or astride the rubber, umpire points the ball back in play, the ball is not in the pitcher's glove or hand, I'm pretty sure that's not legal.

You are correct something is not legal. Only problem is that putting the ball in play is what is not legal at this point...

Originally Posted by FED 5-1-4

After a dead ball, the ball becomes alive when it is held be the pitcher in a legal pitching position, provided the pitcher has engaged the pitcher's plate, the batter and catcher are in their respective boxes, and the umpire calls "Play" and give the appropriate signal.

All criteria have to be met for the ball to live again.

[johnnyg08]

got it...thanks welpe, rube, and tim c

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Johnny, if the pitcher does not have possession of the ball, you cannot legally make the ball live. If he toes the rubber without the ball and the umpire declares "Play!", only to find out the ball is somewhere else, the ball was not made live legally so it is still dead.

Actually, that would be a balk in FED wouldn't it? ...I think ORB, as well.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Actually, that would be a balk in FED wouldn't it? ...I think ORB, as well.

Nope. You can't have a balk on a dead ball. You can't make the ball live unless the pitcher has the ball. Therefore, this cannot be a balk.

[Tim C]

It seems we cover this each year. Since we do it must be a confusing situation.

I believe that many recognize that it is a balk to do something that simulates a pitch . . . HOWEVER . . . after "Time" has been called or the ball has gone to dead ball territory an umpire cannot put the ball in play until the pitcher has the ball in hand, has contacted the pitcher's plate, the batter is in the box (and some will comment on the catcher's in his area) and all is ready for the direction "PLAY".

If an umpire, in error, puts the ball in play without the pitcher having the ball in his possession it is simple a "do over". There is no balk.

[mikebran]

Uh, its right here in MY rool book. Right under the

Hands are part of the bat rool.


I am having trouble finding the possession arrow rool.

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Please do us all a favor? If you ever find the person that told you this, give him a slap in the back of the head and keep slapping him until he understands that this is not a rule!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by jicecone

So its kind of like "kissing your sister."

Really? I didn't find it even remotely like kissing your sister!

[jwwashburn]

Tim, Thanks....I think I remember the last time you set me straight on this. The key here is that even if the Umpire accidentally tries to put the ball in play without the pitcher having it, he can't.

I am trying to remember if I have ever done that...I did have a balk last year when F3 pretended to throw it back to F1 and then F1 toed the rubber as if to pitch.

The coach requested time. I granted it. He came over and said, "What kind of balk was that?" I explained. Then, he said, "I have never seen that one but, you sure as hell didn't make it up!"....turned around and told F3 "Quit screwing around...that's a balk!"

Joe In Missouri

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Welpe

There can only be a change of possession during a live ball and the defense must have "clean hands" prior to the CoP. If there is a foul by team A prior to the CoP and a foul by team B after, team B may decline the penalty and keep the ball.

I made the same mistake. I read the title and thought it was a football thread.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Really? I didn't find it even remotely like kissing your sister!

Hey! Leave my sister out of this and by the way, she still hasn't received last months alimony check. We need to pay the internet bill.

[ManInBlue]

If they try the hidden ball trick after/during a DB, and I put the ball in play (b/c I'm assuming F1 has the ball), then I'm going to warn Skip and his pitcher that if they try that stunt again, they're both gone.

Might be over the top, but you've just tried to pull the wool over my eyes, and I don't roll like that.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

If they try the hidden ball trick after/during a DB, and I put the ball in play (b/c I'm assuming F1 has the ball), then I'm going to warn Skip and his pitcher that if they try that stunt again, they're both gone.

Might be over the top, but you've just tried to pull the wool over my eyes, and I don't roll like that.

How are you gonna justify that one?