Batting out of order

[Mike51]

OBR I know the basics of the BOO rule, but have a slightly different situation. This has not happened to me, but wondering.

A25 should be the batter, but A30 (who is not in the game)comes to the plate. He does not tell the umpire that he is pinch-hitting for A25, just gets in the box and singles. At this point what can the defense do? Is anyone out?

TIA

[UmpJM]

Mike51,

That's an "unannounced sub". If the sub had eligibility to enter and had not earlier batted in a different spot in the order, it's perfectly legal.

JM

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Mike51,

That's an "unannounced sub". If the sub had eligibility to enter and had not earlier batted in a different spot in the order, it's perfectly legal.

JM

And, even if he was not eligible to enter, it's still a sub. Under OBR (per the OP), the hit stands, the original player is out of the game, and the illegal sub is removed from base, a legal sub is put in.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

And, even if he was not eligible to enter, it's still a sub. Under OBR (per the OP), the hit stands, the original player is out of the game, and the illegal sub is removed from base, a legal sub is put in.

This is one of the very few Evans interpretations that I do not agree with. I follow the Roder - J/R interp for this situation.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by bossman72

This is one of the very few Evans interpretations that I do not agree with. I follow the Roder - J/R interp for this situation.

This is not in response to the OP? Correct?

[DG]

Originally Posted by bossman72

This is one of the very few Evans interpretations that I do not agree with. I follow the Roder - J/R interp for this situation.

Would like more info on diff between JEA and J/R. I would be inclined to go with Evans.

[johnnyg08]

Evans is working on his new Annotated...looking forward to that

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by DG

Would like more info on diff between JEA and J/R. I would be inclined to go with Evans.

Ok let's use an example play:

R1, R2. An illegal sub enters the game and hits a bases clearing double. It is then discovered by the umpires that he is an illegal sub:

Roder's ruling: Call out the illegal sub and eject him. Return R1 and R2. The original player subbed for cannot re-enter.

Evan's ruling: The play stands despite the actions of the illegal sub. Both runs score. The illegal sub is ejected (not called out) and is replaced on base with a new sub.

[johnnyg08]

If A30 is legally in the game, in that spot in the order it's nothing. Simply record the substitution. A substitution is completed and the player is considered as having entered the game when the manager or is designee notifies the plate umpire of the substitution. If no such notification is made, the player shall be considered as having entered the game when:

1. If a pitcher; he takes his place on the pitcher's plate prior to delivering a pitch
2. If a batter; he takes his place in the batter's box
3. If a fielder; he reaches the position usually occupied by the fielder has has replaced, and play commences
4. If a runner; he takes the place of the runner he has replaced

[Fritz]

J08,your mention of the pitcher reminds of a scenario I have seen every now and then at the youth level (which usually plays some sort of modified OBR). Between innings, one of the other fielders may step on the rubber and pitch a warm-up pitch as a "joke." Twice I have had an opposing coach argue that the "new" pitcher must now pitch to the first batter and the "replaced" pitcher is done.

Both times I told the coach that 1) the ball was never made live, and 2) it would count against the regular pitcher's warmup time/pitches, but that was it.

Neither argued it more than that, though if pushed I was going to say the rules do allow the pitcher to go to another position once per inning and return, and they just did that, in effect. That doesn't address any requirement to pitch to another batter though.

Just wondering if there was another way to handle that.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Fritz

J08,your mention of the pitcher reminds of a scenario I have seen every now and then at the youth level (which usually plays some sort of modified OBR). Between innings, one of the other fielders may step on the rubber and pitch a warm-up pitch as a "joke." Twice I have had an opposing coach argue that the "new" pitcher must now pitch to the first batter and the "replaced" pitcher is done.

Both times I told the coach that 1) the ball was never made live, and 2) it would count against the regular pitcher's warmup time/pitches, but that was it.

Neither argued it more than that, though if pushed I was going to say the rules do allow the pitcher to go to another position once per inning and return, and they just did that, in effect. That doesn't address any requirement to pitch to another batter though.

Just wondering if there was another way to handle that.

In LL rules, technically the coaches were correct. In OBR just taking a position on the rubber is enough. It's probably one of those things you "didn't see" though.

In OBR/LL there is no provision (as there is in FED) that the ball be live on an unannounced pitching substitution.

You shouldn't count it against the pitcher's 8 warm-ups. The real pitcher gets 8 pitches or one munute.

In most 12U youth ball a pitcher who leaves pitching cannot return to pitch.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

If a fielder; he reaches the position usually occupied by the fielder has has replaced, and play commences

According to one of Luciano's books, this part was added the year after (I think it was) Billy Martin protested a game. It was when the DH rule had just come in and the opponent's DH went out to catch the pitcher's warm-up throws while the regular catcher was getting his gear on. Billy wanted the DH to be officially in the game at that point.

[UMP25]

OK, here's one for you. OBR...

The # 3 hitter Johnny is up to bat with a 1-1 count. He takes strike 2 and the defensive manager goes out to talk to his pitcher. After he's done with his trip, there's a new batter at the plate, the # 4 hitter Billy. Apparently, Johnny believed he had struck out. Billy takes a strike when the defensive manager now brings this to the attention of the home plate umpire.

Have fun with this one!