Time limit games

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Interesting points from all of you. Let me say that I do not agree with Rich Ives for a timed game as going by Rule Book Game Start allows the home team to perform their warm up off the clock. I don't care if you limit the pitcher to 8 pitches, he his still off the clock if you do it this way.

Remember, baseball is a non-timed sport, so if you are going to set a clock to it, everything that the teams do must be timed. Therefore, I agree with starting the clock at the end of the plate meeting is the only fair way for both teams. Now if it is a cold morning and the home coach wants a couple of more warm up throws for his prize pitcher, its all on the clock!

Ozzy, I said the league should determine the start time but if they don't then go to the rule book.

You can't let each individual umpire make up his own definition.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Ozzy, I said the league should determine the start time but if they don't then go to the rule book.

You can't let each individual umpire make up his own definition.

Rich, did you read my post? I specifically addressed why going by the book is unfair by allowing one team to preform a function off the clock when the other team will be doing the same thing on the clock! You above all the others are a proponent of fair play with your connection to youth sports so think about what I am saying.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Rich, did you read my post? I specifically addressed why going by the book is unfair by allowing one team to preform a function off the clock when the other team will be doing the same thing on the clock! You above all the others are a proponent of fair play with your connection to youth sports so think about what I am saying.

Yes I read your post. You said you disagreed with using the rule to determine the start time.

It's nice to know why, but your approach does fall into the category of making up a rule to suit your personal belief. You can't apply 9.01(c) or its equivalents because it's already covered in the rules.

"Fair" is applying the same rules to both teams. Unless the schedule is strange, each team will be home half the time and visitor half the time and subject to the same rules. The official start time affects the teams equally. That's "fair".

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Yes I read your post. You said you disagreed with using the rule to determine the start time.

It's nice to know why, but your approach does fall into the category of making up a rule to suit your personal belief. You can't apply 9.01(c) or its equivalents because it's already covered in the rules.

"Fair" is applying the same rules to both teams. Unless the schedule is strange, each team will be home half the time and visitor half the time and subject to the same rules. The official start time affects the teams equally. That's "fair".

On the same accord, baseball was never designed to be a timed game, either so no matter how you work it, there is going to be some form of "making it up as you go along". The rules of baseball (OBR,FED & NCAA) have nothing to give the umpire crew a clue when to start a clock. When to start the game, yes! I say that the warm up of the home team is part of the clock because it just makes sense. Every other inning has a warm up and they are part of the clock so why not the home team's in the 1st inning?

This is why I hate dealing with anything outside the rules and "League rules".

Baseball is not timed - if you want to time it, then you have to time EVERYTHING.

Peace!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

On the same accord, baseball was never designed to be a timed game, either so no matter how you work it, there is going to be some form of "making it up as you go along". The rules of baseball (OBR,FED & NCAA) have nothing to give the umpire crew a clue when to start a clock. When to start the game, yes! I say that the warm up of the home team is part of the clock because it just makes sense. Every other inning has a warm up and they are part of the clock so why not the home team's in the 1st inning?

This is why I hate dealing with anything outside the rules and "League rules".

Baseball is not timed - if you want to time it, then you have to time EVERYTHING.

Peace!

What's the basis for the "time of game" listing in the box socre? Is it the end of warm-ups, the time of the first pitch, something else?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

What's the basis for the "time of game" listing in the box socre? Is it the end of warm-ups, the time of the first pitch, something else?

Per an official scorer (Atlanta Blue):

We have had this very debate in the press box!

MLB has instructed scorers to use the time of the first pitch. I argue that this is a mistake, that it should be the time that the umpire puts the ball in play, as that is the point that the game "starts". But MLB didn't really care about my disagreement.

Suppose the pitcher licks his fingers while on the mound before the first pitch. A ball is added to the count, BUT THE GAME HASN'T STARTED YET according to MLB.

Despite my logic, MLB uses first pitch.

But when I'm in charge .......

[njdevs00cup]

When I work tournament ball over the summer, I do review the speed up rules and encourage both managers to appropriately plan to warm up their pitchers in between innings if the catcher is not ready.

One of the challenges I have encountered during timed tournament games is unitnentional, intentional stalling. For example a legal substitution for the catcher during the middle of an inning. How do you handle situations like that?

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

What's the basis for the "time of game" listing in the box socre? Is it the end of warm-ups, the time of the first pitch, something else?

MLB wants the Start Time and the End Time of the game for the records. This has no bearing on the game itself, it is simply used as statistics. This thread is about TIMED GAMES meaning you have a certain amount of time to either complete the game or you live with the results. Timed games use clocks to tick off the time alloted as in a 15 minute clock for a football quarter.

Baseball was never designed to be run by a clock, that is why there are so many discussions and disagreements (such as the one between Rich & I). There will never be an agreement on this as he wants to go by a rule book that was never designed nor designated to be used with a clock. I on the other hand want all action of both teams as part of the timed action. Would it really make a difference? Probably not, but I stand on my conviction of all action of the teams being put under the clock.

Better yet, tell the TD to stick the clock where the sun don't shine and let's play a leisurely game of baseball the way it was designed!

[DG]

I work one league that has timed games, this year, but not last year or in year's past. Umpires in this league have been lobbying for timed games for some time, because without it the teams have no incentive to hussle on and off and keep things moving along. I worked a game last year that lasted over3 hours, a seven inning game.

Most of the games are worked within the time limit. I had one last week that the 2 hour time limit was up after only 4 innings, but league rule says you must play 5 regardless of time limit so we played another. Final score was same as it was after 4, 28-14.

Time starts when PU says "play" so that is why I give the coaches a "projected" start time at the end of the plate meeting, to give pitcher his warmups. I have forgotten to do this before and when that happens I pull my little watch out of my ball bag just before the first pitch and tell them game time start after the first half inning. It's never a big deal, at the beginning of a game, it's only a big deal as time is running out.

[cardinalfan]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

When I work tournament ball over the summer, I do review the speed up rules and encourage both managers to appropriately plan to warm up their pitchers in between innings if the catcher is not ready.

One of the challenges I have encountered during timed tournament games is unitnentional, intentional stalling. For example a legal substitution for the catcher during the middle of an inning. How do you handle situations like that?

I don't work timed games, but I occasionally go out to watch Jr. & Sr. Babe Ruth games at the local park during the summer.
What you described drives me insane. This is big boy baseball - 14 yr olds & up. I constantly see coaches make fools of themselves and the game by some of the silliest stall methods they can think of.

As an umpire, I don't see anything you can do unless your local assoc. has rules guarding against this unsportsmanlike coaching.

[PeteBooth]

The problem with using the first pitch as start time is you have now given one team an advantage.

The HT F1 gets to throw his warm-up pitches UNTIMED whereas the VT F1 throws his warm-ups TIMED Suppose the HT is LAZY and takes their "sweet time" getting onto the field or F2 isn't ready yet etc.

You do not RESET the clock after the top of one is complete so that the VT F1 gets FREE warm-ups.

It's simple, after Plate meeting is finished we tell BOTH coaches it's 4:30 and the clock STARTS at that point. if the HT wants to "dilly dally" on their way out the clock is ticking.

Pete Booth

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

The problem with using the first pitch as start time is you have now given one team an advantage.

The HT F1 gets to throw his warm-up pitches UNTIMED whereas the VT F1 throws his warm-ups TIMED Suppose the HT is LAZY and takes their "sweet time" getting onto the field or F2 isn't ready yet etc.

You do not RESET the clock after the top of one is complete so that the VT F1 gets FREE warm-ups.

It's simple, after Plate meeting is finished we tell BOTH coaches it's 4:30 and the clock STARTS at that point. if the HT wants to "dilly dally" on their way out the clock is ticking.

Pete Booth

And every team gets this "free" time at half of their games.

[johnnyg08]

Whether the clock has started or not, don't the rules still govern how long they have to do their warm up pitches? Even if the clock hasn't started, you can still umpire right?

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

The problem with using the first pitch as start time is you have now given one team an advantage.


Pete Booth

We give both starting pitchers all the time they need in the first inning. After that, it's one minute on the changeovers. It works, and may add an extra 30 seconds to the game.

[JPaco54]

My issue with times games is not what the official start time is but when does the game end. All tournament youth competitive games that I have umped are timed, except for the final championship game. The bigger issue to me is when does the game officially end. Rules state: "1 hour and 40 mins. or 6 innings which ever comes first. Complete game after 4."
Example - Home team is winning after 5 innings, third out made by home team with 30 seconds remaining. Do you start another half inning with the visiting team coming up to bat? This will push the game time well past the 1hr. 40 mins. If VT ties the game then you have another half inning to play giving the HT another at bat. So, does the game end before the VT takes the field. Some tournaments state, if there is any time left after the third out is made by the HT and HT is winning you must continue play with the VT coming to bat. So, if there is 30 seconds or 1 minute left after the third out, you know the next pitch will not start until another 2 -3 minutes have past so now you have passed the 1 hour 40min time frame to start another inning. This is where many of the coaches start playing games as you know, to either stall or speed up the game so another inning will not start or forces you to start another inning. Are there any less complicated ways to handle this and being fair to both teams?