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You can't let each individual umpire make up his own definition.
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Rich Ives Different does not equate to wrong |
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Rich, did you read my post? I specifically addressed why going by the book is unfair by allowing one team to preform a function off the clock when the other team will be doing the same thing on the clock! You above all the others are a proponent of fair play with your connection to youth sports so think about what I am saying.
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When in doubt, bang 'em out! Ozzy |
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It's nice to know why, but your approach does fall into the category of making up a rule to suit your personal belief. You can't apply 9.01(c) or its equivalents because it's already covered in the rules. "Fair" is applying the same rules to both teams. Unless the schedule is strange, each team will be home half the time and visitor half the time and subject to the same rules. The official start time affects the teams equally. That's "fair".
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Rich Ives Different does not equate to wrong |
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This is why I hate dealing with anything outside the rules and "League rules". Baseball is not timed - if you want to time it, then you have to time EVERYTHING. Peace!
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When in doubt, bang 'em out! Ozzy |
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Per an official scorer (Atlanta Blue): We have had this very debate in the press box! MLB has instructed scorers to use the time of the first pitch. I argue that this is a mistake, that it should be the time that the umpire puts the ball in play, as that is the point that the game "starts". But MLB didn't really care about my disagreement. Suppose the pitcher licks his fingers while on the mound before the first pitch. A ball is added to the count, BUT THE GAME HASN'T STARTED YET according to MLB. Despite my logic, MLB uses first pitch. But when I'm in charge .......
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Rich Ives Different does not equate to wrong |
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When I work tournament ball over the summer, I do review the speed up rules and encourage both managers to appropriately plan to warm up their pitchers in between innings if the catcher is not ready.
One of the challenges I have encountered during timed tournament games is unitnentional, intentional stalling. For example a legal substitution for the catcher during the middle of an inning. How do you handle situations like that? |
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Baseball was never designed to be run by a clock, that is why there are so many discussions and disagreements (such as the one between Rich & I). There will never be an agreement on this as he wants to go by a rule book that was never designed nor designated to be used with a clock. I on the other hand want all action of both teams as part of the timed action. Would it really make a difference? Probably not, but I stand on my conviction of all action of the teams being put under the clock. Better yet, tell the TD to stick the clock where the sun don't shine and let's play a leisurely game of baseball the way it was designed!
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When in doubt, bang 'em out! Ozzy |
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I work one league that has timed games, this year, but not last year or in year's past. Umpires in this league have been lobbying for timed games for some time, because without it the teams have no incentive to hussle on and off and keep things moving along. I worked a game last year that lasted over3 hours, a seven inning game.
Most of the games are worked within the time limit. I had one last week that the 2 hour time limit was up after only 4 innings, but league rule says you must play 5 regardless of time limit so we played another. Final score was same as it was after 4, 28-14. Time starts when PU says "play" so that is why I give the coaches a "projected" start time at the end of the plate meeting, to give pitcher his warmups. I have forgotten to do this before and when that happens I pull my little watch out of my ball bag just before the first pitch and tell them game time start after the first half inning. It's never a big deal, at the beginning of a game, it's only a big deal as time is running out. |
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What you described drives me insane. This is big boy baseball - 14 yr olds & up. I constantly see coaches make fools of themselves and the game by some of the silliest stall methods they can think of. As an umpire, I don't see anything you can do unless your local assoc. has rules guarding against this unsportsmanlike coaching. |
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The HT F1 gets to throw his warm-up pitches UNTIMED whereas the VT F1 throws his warm-ups TIMED Suppose the HT is LAZY and takes their "sweet time" getting onto the field or F2 isn't ready yet etc. You do not RESET the clock after the top of one is complete so that the VT F1 gets FREE warm-ups. It's simple, after Plate meeting is finished we tell BOTH coaches it's 4:30 and the clock STARTS at that point. if the HT wants to "dilly dally" on their way out the clock is ticking. Pete Booth
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Peter M. Booth |
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Rich Ives Different does not equate to wrong |
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Whether the clock has started or not, don't the rules still govern how long they have to do their warm up pitches? Even if the clock hasn't started, you can still umpire right?
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It's like Deja Vu all over again |
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We give both starting pitchers all the time they need in the first inning. After that, it's one minute on the changeovers. It works, and may add an extra 30 seconds to the game.
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My issue with times games is not what the official start time is but when does the game end. All tournament youth competitive games that I have umped are timed, except for the final championship game. The bigger issue to me is when does the game officially end. Rules state: "1 hour and 40 mins. or 6 innings which ever comes first. Complete game after 4."
Example - Home team is winning after 5 innings, third out made by home team with 30 seconds remaining. Do you start another half inning with the visiting team coming up to bat? This will push the game time well past the 1hr. 40 mins. If VT ties the game then you have another half inning to play giving the HT another at bat. So, does the game end before the VT takes the field. Some tournaments state, if there is any time left after the third out is made by the HT and HT is winning you must continue play with the VT coming to bat. So, if there is 30 seconds or 1 minute left after the third out, you know the next pitch will not start until another 2 -3 minutes have past so now you have passed the 1 hour 40min time frame to start another inning. This is where many of the coaches start playing games as you know, to either stall or speed up the game so another inning will not start or forces you to start another inning. Are there any less complicated ways to handle this and being fair to both teams? |
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