What is the outcome of this?

[ABCZ]

Bases loaded, one out. Batter lifts a fly ball to center which goes over the head of the centerfielder. The CFer retrieves the ball and throws to third. The runner from third scores, the runner from second scores, but the runner from first gets thrown out at third. The defense then properly appeals that the runner from first missed second. The appeal is granted.

How many runs score?

[UmpJM]

ABCZ,

Two. And the R1 is STILL out.

JM

[Huskerblue]

2 runs score. Both the runner that was on 2nd and the one that was on 3rd. Your OP said there was only one out. The appeal would not be necessary as they already retired the runner at third base. If there were two outs in this sitch, still two runs would score as the appeal now becomes a time play.

[Tim C]

"Bases loaded, one out. Batter lifts a fly ball to center which goes over the head of the centerfielder. The CFer retrieves the ball and throws to third. The runner from third scores, the runner from second scores, but the runner from first gets thrown out at third. The defense then properly appeals that the runner from first missed second. The appeal is granted.

"How many runs score?"

Because R1 cannot make two outs on the same play (you have him thrown out at third and missing second base) there are only now two outs.

Both runners that scored count.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by Huskerblue

... If there were two outs in this sitch, still two runs would score as the appeal now becomes a time play.

Husker,

No, that statement is not correct.

If there were 2 outs at the start of the play, then the appeal of the R1's failure to touch 2B would be a run-nullifying "advantageous apparent 4th out appeal", and no runs would score. Since the R1 was "forced" to 2B at the time of the miss, a proper appeal of his miss is treated as a force out. Since it would be the 3rd out of the half-inning, no runs would score on the play.

JM

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Because R1 cannot make two outs on the same play (you have him thrown out at third and missing second base) there are only now two outs.

Both runners that scored count.

Just to clarify.... You can only "swap" outs by the same runner, not add them together, correct?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Just to clarify.... You can only "swap" outs by the same runner, not add them together, correct?

Yes.

[tjones1]

This is the exact question posted on another board by a different person.

[JPaco54]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Husker,

No, that statement is not correct.

If there were 2 outs at the start of the play, then the appeal of the R1's failure to touch 2B would be a run-nullifying "advantageous apparent 4th out appeal", and no runs would score. Since the R1 was "forced" to 2B at the time of the miss, a proper appeal of his miss is treated as a force out. Since it would be the 3rd out of the half-inning, no runs would score on the play.

JM

So then based on UmpJM scenario if there was 1 out, as OP states, then only 1 run would count and R2 is placed on 3B, BR is on 1B. Due to R1 being "forced out" by appeal.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by JPaco54

So then based on UmpJM scenario if there was 1 out, as OP states, then only 1 run would count and R2 is placed on 3B, BR is on 1B. Due to R1 being "forced out" by appeal.

Why would R2 be placed back at third (and BR back at first, if he had advanced farther)?

R1 is out on the appeal, but the other runners keep the bases to which they had advanced.

[JPaco54]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Why would R2 be placed back at third (and BR back at first, if he had advanced farther)?

R1 is out on the appeal, but the other runners keep the bases to which they had advanced.

Bob - I am confused now as to what the proper call would be with the one out scenario. Is this a timing situation? Back to the OP, If appeal made, R1 is out for the second out for missing 2B. R3 scores and R2 scores. BR if advanced to second on the throw to third would maintain 2B. Correct?

But if 2 outs, it becomes a "force" situation and no runs score? Appreciate clarification. Thanks!

[johnnyg08]

R1 has already "touched" 2B, so my understanding would be that it's not a force out.

[JPaco54]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

R1 has already "touched" 2B, so my understanding would be that it's not a force out.

Defense appealed, after R1 thrown out at 3B, that R1 MISSED 2B and therefore was ruled out by appeal.

[johnnyg08]

but it's an appeal play, not a force play right?

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by JPaco54

Bob - I am confused now as to what the proper call would be with the one out scenario. Is this a timing situation? Back to the OP, If appeal made, R1 is out for the second out for missing 2B. R3 scores and R2 scores. BR if advanced to second on the throw to third would maintain 2B. Correct?

But if 2 outs, it becomes a "force" situation and no runs score? Appreciate clarification. Thanks!

JPaco,

I'm not Bob, but let me try to answer your question..

If there is only one out at the start of the play, there is no "timing" to concern yourself with because at the end of the play there are only two outs - even if the defense were to appeal the R1's miss of 2B.

Since they already put him out when he tried to advance to 3B, he's really, really out, but it's still just one out.

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

but it's an appeal play, not a force play right?

johnny,

You seem to suggest these are mutually exclusive options - they are not. See post #5 above.

JM