Asking for Help

ozzy6900 · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 14, 2009, 07:35am

Wait a minute! If we have R1 & R2, I am in "C". If your pitcher does a pickoff to 1st, you are going to get what I can give you from the "C" position - I am not going for help!

Why? "If your team is dumb enough to throw behind the lead runner, you loose! Now my partner is going to have to keep his eye on the lead runner which means he will not be watching the pickoff with me so I am not even going to bother going to him, coach!"

Spence · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 14, 2009, 09:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Wait a minute! If we have R1 & R2, I am in "C". If your pitcher does a pickoff to 1st, you are going to get what I can give you from the "C" position - I am not going for help!

Why? "If your team is dumb enough to throw behind the lead runner, you loose! Now my partner is going to have to keep his eye on the lead runner which means he will not be watching the pickoff with me so I am not even going to bother going to him, coach!"

Thanks, although I don't understand why you would consider it dumb to throw to first to try to pick off a runner.

Spence · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 14, 2009, 09:59am

So now that it seems unanimous that the umpire is not going to ask for help in this situation let me ask this.

Is there ever a time where you would ask your partner for help other than on a checked swing?

mbyron · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 14, 2009, 10:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spence

So now that it seems unanimous that the umpire is not going to ask for help in this situation let me ask this.

Is there ever a time where you would ask your partner for help other than on a checked swing?

You need to get the PBUC red book. There are many, many instances where you can get help, too many to list in an internet post.

For example, no runners, ground ball to the infield, routine play at 1B: PU comes up the line to watch for a swipe tag, interference, and an overthrow. BU can go for help on all 3. (Pulled foot is not proper, but some will go for help on this too.)

MrUmpire · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 14, 2009, 01:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spence

So now that it seems unanimous that the umpire is not going to ask for help in this situation let me ask this.

Is there ever a time where you would ask your partner for help other than on a checked swing?

As the seemingly innocuous OP subtly transitions...

{troll alert}

mbyron · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 14, 2009, 10:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spence

Thanks, although I don't understand why you would consider it dumb to throw to first to try to pick off a runner.

R1 and R2? Why are they trying to pick off R1? Where's he gonna go?

Spence · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 14, 2009, 10:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron

R1 and R2? Why are they trying to pick off R1? Where's he gonna go?

Why not pick him off and get an out?

mbyron · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 14, 2009, 10:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spence

Why not pick him off and get an out?

Do you understand that holding R1 on 1B is costly for the defense?

bob jenkins · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 14, 2009, 10:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron

Do you understand that holding R1 on 1B is costly for the defense?

It could have been a "back door" pick-off play, or similar.

mbyron · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 14, 2009, 11:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It could have been a "back door" pick-off play, or similar.

Sure, it's possible to pick off R1 when you've got R1 & R2. I'm suggesting that such a play is risky; the back-door pick-off is especially so. That's why we don't see it much.

And since we don't see it, our mechanics don't need to factor it in much.

And that's why we're in C with R1 & R2. (I vaguely remember that this mechanic has something to do with how we got into all of this about picking off R1 and not R2.)

Spence · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 14, 2009, 12:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron

Do you understand that holding R1 on 1B is costly for the defense?

No. I do realize, though, that it CAN be a problem.

SanDiegoSteve · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 15, 2009, 01:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spence

Thanks, although I don't understand why you would consider it dumb to throw to first to try to pick off a runner.

Do you understand now?

LDUB · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 14, 2009, 10:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Why? "If your team is dumb enough to throw behind the lead runner, you loose! Now my partner is going to have to keep his eye on the lead runner which means he will not be watching the pickoff with me so I am not even going to bother going to him, coach!"

Why are you thinking so much? It is a pickoff; do you footwork and make the call.

ozzy6900 · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 14, 2009, 06:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDUB

Why are you thinking so much? It is a pickoff; do you footwork and make the call.

Listen, LUBDUB

, if you read the OP there is a coach mouthing off and that needs to be addressed.

To the posters who don't see a problem with throwing behind the lead runner.... oh why waste my breath! It's obvious you never got too far playing ball.

LDUB · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 14, 2009, 09:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Listen, LUBDUB

, if you read the OP there is a coach mouthing off and that needs to be addressed.

Ok so you say

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

"If your team is dumb enough to throw behind the lead runner, you loose

What is dumb about that? They picked off the runner. I think any manager would rather have R2 with 1 out over R2 & R1 with 0 out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Now my partner is going to have to keep his eye on the lead runner which means he will not be watching the pickoff with me so I am not even going to bother going to him, coach!"

I would have said that the PU's would be responsible for F1's step and after that be responsible for the ball on a pickoff at first base. What set of mechanics are you using where the PU on pickoffs watches R2?