crowding the plate

[beachbum]

this is the situation. High school JV game. Two good teams

Left handed batter lined up with the toe on his left rear foot just behind home plate, but on the left edge of the plate.. During one at bat, the toe was actually past the left edge of the plate, but behind it( not touching the plate).

His hands were over the plate and he was in a crouch with his front arm high and his rear arm low. This position made it almost impossible to see the ball comming from the pitcher. My only clean look would have been to go to the right side of the plate. after his second at bat, in which i moved to many different spots to see the ball, I finally just set up in a normal position and waited until the ball came into my vision OVER THE PLATE, to make a call.

I was able to make most calls, but the outside corner was tough, especially for curve balls. I only had an instant to make a decision and i never knew exactly where the ball would come into my vision.


Late in game, I called a pitch ( think it was a curve), on the outside of the plate a strike. Player reacted in badly. After game, the coach came up and said, "you need to work on your zone, that pitch on 14 was a ball". I tried to explain the severity of his crowding the plate and me making proper calls, but he wasn't listening.

So, How do the experienced officials handle players when they crowd the plate in a way that your vision is blocked?

As an asside, the assistant coach for that same team came up afterthe game and said " I am disapointed that you did not throw 14 out for unsportman conduct, he shouldn't have reaacted like he did and it was unsportsman like". i have never had a coach want his own player thrown out!!!!

[Thom Coste]

Originally Posted by beachbum

this is the situation. High school JV game. Two good teams

Left handed batter lined up with the toe on his left rear foot just behind home plate, but on the left edge of the plate.. During one at bat, the toe was actually past the left edge of the plate, but behind it( not touching the plate).

His hands were over the plate and he was in a crouch with his front arm high and his rear arm low. This position made it almost impossible to see the ball comming from the pitcher. My only clean look would have been to go to the right side of the plate. after his second at bat, in which i moved to many different spots to see the ball, I finally just set up in a normal position and waited until the ball came into my vision OVER THE PLATE, to make a call.

I was able to make most calls, but the outside corner was tough, especially for curve balls. I only had an instant to make a decision and i never knew exactly where the ball would come into my vision.


Late in game, I called a pitch ( think it was a curve), on the outside of the plate a strike. Player reacted in badly. After game, the coach came up and said, "you need to work on your zone, that pitch on 14 was a ball". I tried to explain the severity of his crowding the plate and me making proper calls, but he wasn't listening.

So, How do the experienced officials handle players when they crowd the plate in a way that your vision is blocked?

As an asside, the assistant coach for that same team came up afterthe game and said " I am disapointed that you did not throw 14 out for unsportman conduct, he shouldn't have reaacted like he did and it was unsportsman like". i have never had a coach want his own player thrown out!!!!

The way you describe it, this batter is not legally in the box. His entire foot must be within the lines. Even when the lines are not there you know that the box does not extend "past the left edge of the plate, but behind it( not touching the plate)."

Move him back and if he refuses to back up, charge him a strike.

And, without seeing in real life, it sounds like the coach was right - you should have dumped the player for "reacting badly."

And you should learn not to talk to coaches after the game - especially if they are going to be critical of your work. And you definitely do not owe him an explanation of "crowding the plate in a way your vision is blocked." If you need correcting, that is the job of your assigner or training chairman. The coach needs to be with his team. And remember, even after the game a coach or player can be "ejected" for unsportsmanlike conduct, with a report to the state. Don't let them get away with that.

[beachbum]

Thanks,

this is my second year and I think i am doing pretty good, but each situation like this is a learning experience. I was just not sure how to handle it while in the line of fire.

I would like to hear from more of you, that are experienced, in how you have dealt with this type of problem.

[midtnblu]

Originally Posted by thom coste

the way you describe it, this batter is not legally in the box. his entire foot must be within the lines. even when the lines are not there you know that the box does not extend "past the left edge of the plate, but behind it( not touching the plate)."

move him back and if he refuses to back up, charge him a strike.

And, without seeing in real life, it sounds like the coach was right - you should have dumped the player for "reacting badly."

and you should learn not to talk to coaches after the game - especially if they are going to be critical of your work. And you definitely do not owe him an explanation of "crowding the plate in a way your vision is blocked." if you need correcting, that is the job of your assigner or training chairman. The coach needs to be with his team. And remember, even after the game a coach or player can be "ejected" for unsportsmanlike conduct, with a report to the state. Don't let them get away with that.

wow!

[BretMan]

Why "wow"? Do you not agree with the statement you highlighted in red?

[midtnblu]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Why "wow"? Do you not agree with the statement you highlighted in red?

my bad---read it wrong----must be completely in the box (lines) when taking a stance.

Tks for keeping me in check.

[bossman72]

Actually, "on" the line would be acceptable.

[ozzy6900]

• When you are crowded, raise yourself up. You cannot get into a normal stance in this case. It is better to look down into the zone than be blocked out.
• Be sure the batter is legally in the box. If he isn't it is not your duty to back him out! Umpire by the rules - if he hits the ball and he is not in the box, nail him!
• Call strikes, especially when the batter crowds you out. Don't take any crap from him or his coach. Don't explain anything to the coach other than, "You know what, coach? The pitcher has a right to the strike zone, too!". He'll get the idea, if he has any intelligence!

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

• ...
• Be sure the batter is legally in the box. If he isn't it is not your duty to back him out! Umpire by the rules - ...

ozzy,

If the batter does not take a legal position in the batter's box as he prepares to receive the pitch, it most certanly IS the umpire's "duty" to instruct him to take a legal position.

Other than that, I concur with your comments.

JM

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

ozzy,

If the batter does not take a legal position in the batter's box as he prepares to receive the pitch, it most certanly IS the umpire's "duty" to instruct him to take a legal position.

Other than that, I concur with your comments.

JM

Although OBR 6.03 states that the batter shall have both feet within the batter's box, the MLBUM gives the first opportunity of notice to the defense (unless the batter is blatant about it). If brought to the umpire's attention, the umpire will instruct the batter to place himself properly in the batter's box. There is no penalty unless the batter refuses to get in the box. If the batter's position is blatantly out of the box, the umpire may instruct the batter to get into the box. Of course, if the batter hit a pitched ball while outside the box, he is to be declared out.

So, I would rather have the defense tell me and correct the batter because if unnoticed, I can get an out if he hits the ball! Unless he gets drilled by the pitch, in which case he will probably be in the strike zone and gets to stay at the plate (they hate when you do that to them).

[Dave Reed]

Interesting comment in the MLBUM, but the NCAA has a different take:
"7.11e. A batter’s legal position in the box shall be defined as having both feet completely within the box (lines are part of the box).
A.R. —Umpires are to enforce this rule as written. If the line of the batter’s box has been erased, the umpire shall require that upon the batter’s initial stance, both feet are no closer than 6 inches from the inside edge of home plate.
PENALTY—Require the batter to move to a proper position.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

Interesting comment in the MLBUM, but the NCAA has a different take:

As, I believe, do most amateur codes.

But if I ever worK a Major League game, now I'll know how to call this!

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

... Unless he gets drilled by the pitch, in which case he will probably be in the strike zone and gets to stay at the plate (they hate when you do that to them).

I had my first unsportsmanlike ejection of a H.S. player ever yesterday based on that very thing. It wasn't a strike, but he got nicked and I kept him. I don't think I've done that more than five or six times ever. But the kid caused the ball to hit him. He argued, I told him to get in the batter's box and don't say another word. After a brief argument with his coach, I stepped back behind the dish and the little wise-a** turned and looked back and said, "I guess everything's going to be a strike no matter where it is." I didn't even talk to him again. I took my mask off and walked down the line, took out my lineup card and pencil and asked the head coach which batter he's going to be putting in to assume No. 8's 2-2 count because he's out of the ballgame. The wise-a** even dropped some bombs on the way out (making his suspension longer).

He was such a little a-hole that his catcher came out for the bottom of the inning and said that watching that kid get tossed was his team's favorite event of the season. Apparently, I tossed the right guy--someone his team is glad to see suspended.

[beachbum]

I have been looking through my NFHS rule book, concerning a rule about a batters foot position, while in the box and waiting for a pitch. Is any portion of his feet allowed to be out of the box?

surely there must be something, or the batter could stand anywhere he wanted to.

Is there any rule pertaining to this? I don't do above high school, so let's keep college rules out of it.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by beachbum

I have been looking through my NFHS rule book, concerning a rule about a batters foot position, while in the box and waiting for a pitch. Is any portion of his feet allowed to be out of the box?

surely there must be something, or the batter could stand anywhere he wanted to.

Is there any rule pertaining to this? I don't do above high school, so let's keep college rules out of it.

When "waiting for a pitch", the batter's feet must be entirely in the box (no portion may extend beyond a line). See 7-1-1 and 2-7-2.

When "hitting a pitch" it's illegal only if the entire foot is beyon the line (or, in FED or NCAAA touching the plate).