crowding the plate

[beachbum]

this is the situation. High school JV game. Two good teams

Left handed batter lined up with the toe on his left rear foot just behind home plate, but on the left edge of the plate.. During one at bat, the toe was actually past the left edge of the plate, but behind it( not touching the plate).

His hands were over the plate and he was in a crouch with his front arm high and his rear arm low. This position made it almost impossible to see the ball comming from the pitcher. My only clean look would have been to go to the right side of the plate. after his second at bat, in which i moved to many different spots to see the ball, I finally just set up in a normal position and waited until the ball came into my vision OVER THE PLATE, to make a call.

I was able to make most calls, but the outside corner was tough, especially for curve balls. I only had an instant to make a decision and i never knew exactly where the ball would come into my vision.


Late in game, I called a pitch ( think it was a curve), on the outside of the plate a strike. Player reacted in badly. After game, the coach came up and said, "you need to work on your zone, that pitch on 14 was a ball". I tried to explain the severity of his crowding the plate and me making proper calls, but he wasn't listening.

So, How do the experienced officials handle players when they crowd the plate in a way that your vision is blocked?

As an asside, the assistant coach for that same team came up afterthe game and said " I am disapointed that you did not throw 14 out for unsportman conduct, he shouldn't have reaacted like he did and it was unsportsman like". i have never had a coach want his own player thrown out!!!!

[Thom Coste]

Originally Posted by beachbum

this is the situation. High school JV game. Two good teams

Left handed batter lined up with the toe on his left rear foot just behind home plate, but on the left edge of the plate.. During one at bat, the toe was actually past the left edge of the plate, but behind it( not touching the plate).

His hands were over the plate and he was in a crouch with his front arm high and his rear arm low. This position made it almost impossible to see the ball comming from the pitcher. My only clean look would have been to go to the right side of the plate. after his second at bat, in which i moved to many different spots to see the ball, I finally just set up in a normal position and waited until the ball came into my vision OVER THE PLATE, to make a call.

I was able to make most calls, but the outside corner was tough, especially for curve balls. I only had an instant to make a decision and i never knew exactly where the ball would come into my vision.


Late in game, I called a pitch ( think it was a curve), on the outside of the plate a strike. Player reacted in badly. After game, the coach came up and said, "you need to work on your zone, that pitch on 14 was a ball". I tried to explain the severity of his crowding the plate and me making proper calls, but he wasn't listening.

So, How do the experienced officials handle players when they crowd the plate in a way that your vision is blocked?

As an asside, the assistant coach for that same team came up afterthe game and said " I am disapointed that you did not throw 14 out for unsportman conduct, he shouldn't have reaacted like he did and it was unsportsman like". i have never had a coach want his own player thrown out!!!!

The way you describe it, this batter is not legally in the box. His entire foot must be within the lines. Even when the lines are not there you know that the box does not extend "past the left edge of the plate, but behind it( not touching the plate)."

Move him back and if he refuses to back up, charge him a strike.

And, without seeing in real life, it sounds like the coach was right - you should have dumped the player for "reacting badly."

And you should learn not to talk to coaches after the game - especially if they are going to be critical of your work. And you definitely do not owe him an explanation of "crowding the plate in a way your vision is blocked." If you need correcting, that is the job of your assigner or training chairman. The coach needs to be with his team. And remember, even after the game a coach or player can be "ejected" for unsportsmanlike conduct, with a report to the state. Don't let them get away with that.

[beachbum]

Thanks,

this is my second year and I think i am doing pretty good, but each situation like this is a learning experience. I was just not sure how to handle it while in the line of fire.

I would like to hear from more of you, that are experienced, in how you have dealt with this type of problem.

[midtnblu]

Originally Posted by thom coste

the way you describe it, this batter is not legally in the box. his entire foot must be within the lines. even when the lines are not there you know that the box does not extend "past the left edge of the plate, but behind it( not touching the plate)."

move him back and if he refuses to back up, charge him a strike.

And, without seeing in real life, it sounds like the coach was right - you should have dumped the player for "reacting badly."

and you should learn not to talk to coaches after the game - especially if they are going to be critical of your work. And you definitely do not owe him an explanation of "crowding the plate in a way your vision is blocked." if you need correcting, that is the job of your assigner or training chairman. The coach needs to be with his team. And remember, even after the game a coach or player can be "ejected" for unsportsmanlike conduct, with a report to the state. Don't let them get away with that.

wow!

[BretMan]

Why "wow"? Do you not agree with the statement you highlighted in red?

[midtnblu]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Why "wow"? Do you not agree with the statement you highlighted in red?

my bad---read it wrong----must be completely in the box (lines) when taking a stance.

Tks for keeping me in check.

[bossman72]

Actually, "on" the line would be acceptable.

[Thom Coste]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Actually, "on" the line would be acceptable.

Actually "maybe" on the line would be acceptable. As long as no part of the foot is outside the box. midtnblu got it right, feet must be completely within the box, the lines being within the box (i.e., the box is defined by the outside edges of the lines.)

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by beachbum

this is the situation. High school JV game. Two good teams

Left handed batter lined up with the toe on his left rear foot just behind home plate, but on the left edge of the plate.. During one at bat, the toe was actually past the left edge of the plate, but behind it( not touching the plate).

His hands were over the plate and he was in a crouch with his front arm high and his rear arm low. This position made it almost impossible to see the ball comming from the pitcher. My only clean look would have been to go to the right side of the plate. after his second at bat, in which i moved to many different spots to see the ball, I finally just set up in a normal position and waited until the ball came into my vision OVER THE PLATE, to make a call.

I was able to make most calls, but the outside corner was tough, especially for curve balls. I only had an instant to make a decision and i never knew exactly where the ball would come into my vision.


Late in game, I called a pitch ( think it was a curve), on the outside of the plate a strike. Player reacted in badly. After game, the coach came up and said, "you need to work on your zone, that pitch on 14 was a ball". I tried to explain the severity of his crowding the plate and me making proper calls, but he wasn't listening.

So, How do the experienced officials handle players when they crowd the plate in a way that your vision is blocked?

As an asside, the assistant coach for that same team came up afterthe game and said " I am disapointed that you did not throw 14 out for unsportman conduct, he shouldn't have reaacted like he did and it was unsportsman like". i have never had a coach want his own player thrown out!!!!

I take a different approach depending on the level of ball. If it's little kids, I will call time and sweep off the plate while talking with the child on the first offense. I just tell him to make sure that he has his feet in the box. I like to keep it simple.

On the other hand, in a varsity game I take a bit of a smarta$$ approach. On the first occurrence, I'll tell the player to step into the box. Thereafter, I will give the do not pitch signal to the pitcher and wait until the batter steps in. If they do not step into the box within 5-10 seconds, I call time and issue a delay warning for the team. Works everytime...It's probably not by the book but it hasn't bit me in the butt yet *knock on wood*

-Josh

[Durham]

Get a strike on the inside 1/3 of the plate and get the guy to back off.

[ozzy6900]

• When you are crowded, raise yourself up. You cannot get into a normal stance in this case. It is better to look down into the zone than be blocked out.
• Be sure the batter is legally in the box. If he isn't it is not your duty to back him out! Umpire by the rules - if he hits the ball and he is not in the box, nail him!
• Call strikes, especially when the batter crowds you out. Don't take any crap from him or his coach. Don't explain anything to the coach other than, "You know what, coach? The pitcher has a right to the strike zone, too!". He'll get the idea, if he has any intelligence!

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

• ...
• Be sure the batter is legally in the box. If he isn't it is not your duty to back him out! Umpire by the rules - ...

ozzy,

If the batter does not take a legal position in the batter's box as he prepares to receive the pitch, it most certanly IS the umpire's "duty" to instruct him to take a legal position.

Other than that, I concur with your comments.

JM

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

ozzy,

If the batter does not take a legal position in the batter's box as he prepares to receive the pitch, it most certanly IS the umpire's "duty" to instruct him to take a legal position.

Other than that, I concur with your comments.

JM

Although OBR 6.03 states that the batter shall have both feet within the batter's box, the MLBUM gives the first opportunity of notice to the defense (unless the batter is blatant about it). If brought to the umpire's attention, the umpire will instruct the batter to place himself properly in the batter's box. There is no penalty unless the batter refuses to get in the box. If the batter's position is blatantly out of the box, the umpire may instruct the batter to get into the box. Of course, if the batter hit a pitched ball while outside the box, he is to be declared out.

So, I would rather have the defense tell me and correct the batter because if unnoticed, I can get an out if he hits the ball! Unless he gets drilled by the pitch, in which case he will probably be in the strike zone and gets to stay at the plate (they hate when you do that to them).

[Dave Reed]

Interesting comment in the MLBUM, but the NCAA has a different take:
"7.11e. A batter’s legal position in the box shall be defined as having both feet completely within the box (lines are part of the box).
A.R. —Umpires are to enforce this rule as written. If the line of the batter’s box has been erased, the umpire shall require that upon the batter’s initial stance, both feet are no closer than 6 inches from the inside edge of home plate.
PENALTY—Require the batter to move to a proper position.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Durham

Get a strike on the inside 1/3 of the plate and get the guy to back off.

The inside 1/3 of the plate is part of the plate. Call one 2-3 inches inside, off the plate, while he is jumping out of the way and maybe he will get the message. Call one on the corner when he gets hit by it and by golly....