did the run score ?

[Maz17]

You guys can blast me all you want. You can Harry's School, Jim's School, NCAA Clinic, Arizona Umpire Academy, O.U.T.S. Clinic me all you want. Here is the ultimate, CRYSTAL CLEAR and Highest authority on this question!!!

THE MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL UMPIRE MANUAL (Yes...I have one!)
READ CAREFULLY

Section 8.7

"VOLUNTARY STRIKE"

In the situation where the third strike eludes the catcher on a half-swing and the batter/runner is entitled to first base, the appeal should be made to the base umpire instantly (without waiting for a request from the defense); but even if the appeal is not instant, the appropriate base umpire should immediately and voluntarilymake a call of strike IF the base umpire is going to reverse the plate umpire's call. This will give the batter/runner the immediate opportunity to run.


And as for the original question, if the batter/runner has not reached first base, and the batter/runner is retired, NO RUNS CAN SCORE!!!

[Kevin Finnerty]

See, I told you Maz and Matt were right. Especially Maz.

[Dave Reed]

The exact quote from the MLB:

8.7 "VOLUNTARY STRIKE"
In the situation where the third strike eludes the catcher on a half-swing and the batter-runner is entitled to run to first base, the appeal should be made to the base umpire instantly (without waiting for a request from the defense); but even if the appeal is not instant, the appropriate base umpire should immediately and voluntarily make a call of strike IF the base umpire is going to reverse the plate umpire's call. This will give the batter the immediate opportunity to run.

[Bolding, caps, and quotation marks copied from MLBUM.]

You could also read this thread, where the same question was asked (and answered) Asking BU on a Check Swing

Edited to add: I type too slow!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

Excuse me? That's not his call.

PU should make a quick appeal without being asked if there is any question. I've never heard that BU should simply make a call on this without being asked by PU.

I disagree with this assement.

On topic, no, like everyone else has stated

By now you know that it *can* be an accepted mechanic.

That said, if the mechanic is not used in your area, I wouldn't spring it on an unsuspecting PU without discussing it in the pre-game.

And, if you're the PU, you can ask for help without being asked by the defense -- it's almost as good as BU just coming up with the call.

Either way, it lets both teams know what is going on and helps (but, as Kevin illustrates doesn't eliminate) avoid the post-call-reversal discussions / third world plays that might happen.

[jkumpire]

With respect,

The voluntary strike mechanic is a good idea. However, the MLBUM mechanics book is not the law for mechanics except in MLB/MiLB. And if the 2007 manual is the first one with it in, then a lot of good umpires are behind the times. I would encourage you good people who have the manual to bring this to the attention of the CCA guys (for example), and see if they will include it in the future.

I could see multiple big time discussions with a BU who uses this on a field today on many levels of baseball.

[Welpe]

Bob nailed it. This needs to be pre-gamed.

While the MLBUM is a useful resource, I wouldn't go as far as to say it is the highest authority for amateur baseball. Your governing body or association is going to be the final authority on this mechanic. [Edit: I see jkumpire made that same point above me, I guess I missed it!]

If this is not a standard mechanic in your area, you can really put your crew in the jackpot if you come up with a swinging strike on an unsuspecting PU.

[cardinalfan]

The next time I have a boring game with one of my buddies behind the plate, I may yell, "Yes he did" or "No, he did not" for no good reason. I think it would spice up the game a little!

Seriously, the only time I've ever used this is when the dugout is trying to get the catcher to appeal, but they can't get his attention. If I agree with the PU that the batter did not swing, I'll yell, "No, he did not" with the safe mechanic just to expediate the process.

I can see where this would be very helpful in certain situations with 2 strikes and runners on base.

[nopachunts]

cardinalfan wrote:
"Seriously, the only time I've ever used this is when the dugout is trying to get the catcher to appeal, but they can't get his attention. If I agree with the PU that the batter did not swing, I'll yell, "No, he did not" with the safe mechanic just to expediate the process."

Don't throw the PU under the bus on this. If the dugout can't get the catcher's attention, that's not the PU or BU's problem. If I am BU, everybody and their sister can ask if the batter went but unless the PU asks, I know nothing.

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

By now you know that it *can* be an accepted mechanic.

Yep, I see that.

Originally Posted by Maz17

You guys can blast me all you want. You can Harry's School, Jim's School, NCAA Clinic, Arizona Umpire Academy, O.U.T.S. Clinic me all you want.

I wasn't doing any of this. I admitted that it *can be* an accepted mechanic after Kevin's explaination. All I said was that it seemed odd that no one had mentioned it.

[DG]

You can't pre-game everything. I have never heard this situation in pre-game from another umpire and it is not in my standard package to discuss. Sometimes you just have to go with your training, whatever that was. I work with a lot of guys that I don't know what their training was.

[tballump]

This must have been put in because the managers know the umps must get help if requested. On those big fields on a first or second strike those jerk-of managers immediately start screaming "get help". However, on a third strike that gets by their catcher, they wait until the catcher gets to the ball or gets back to the plate to start screaming "get help". Typical front-running MFSBDBCS rats.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by tballump

This must have been put in because the managers know the umps must get help if requested. On those big fields on a first or second strike those jerk-of managers immediately start screaming "get help". However, on a third strike that gets by their catcher, they wait until the catcher gets to the ball or gets back to the plate to start screaming "get help". Typical front-running MFSBDBCS rats.

One way to foil the coach is to ask the BU yourself, immediately, on a pitch in the dirt with two strikes, as covered in the PBUC manual.

Remember what jkumpire, Welpe, et al. have said: These manuals were written for professional umpires. They know what to do in cases like the ones we are talking about. At the amateur level, yes, I would say the "voluntary strike" mechanic should be well understood by you and your partner before the game, and there are umpires you might not want to use it with.

[scubajim]

no

[SAump]

I doubt the need for help exists. PU has responsibility here. The PU should make an aggressive call in this situation. Its just more acceptable to all parties involved. Do not place the BU in an unfair position. The PU having a superior vantage point to correctly adjudicate should never-never feel second-guessed.

I caution against using the voluntary strike mechanic more than once a season. It may be a useful backup mechanic when the PU is overwhelmed. That is where the problem in communication lies. Does the PU have to go for help immediately in this situation if he is on top of it?

How does it alter the play? The batter always thinks he checked in time. Are we to blame the umpires for failing him in this situation? It sounds like coaching to me. Do I care if he had a "fair" chance to run? No, because this is the same check-swing situation that occurs most frequently.

I say, if he swung and didn't run, he is at risk. The responsibility is placed on the 1B coach and his batter. The PU balls it. The defense ask for an opinion. Batter is out upon successful appeal. The timing of the appeal should not become a factor in determining the batter's status. JMOHO.