did the run score ?

[KenL.nation]

bases loaded,2 strikes on the batter. The next pitch, batter check swings.
The ball gets by the catcher. Now heres the tricky part, R3 crosses the plate
before the catcher dives and tags the batter/runner. The check swing was appealed to the base ump, he called it a strike for the 3rd out.
Does the run score ?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by KenL.nation

bases loaded,2 strikes on the batter. The next pitch, batter check swings.
The ball gets by the catcher. Now heres the tricky part, R3 crosses the plate
before the catcher dives and tags the batter/runner. The check swing was appealed to the base ump, he called it a strike for the 3rd out.
Does the run score ?

No. Batter was out before reaching first.

[Maz17]

Not only is the batter/runner out for not being retired before reaching first base, This IS NOT a time play!

Also, on a situation like this, if the swing is called: No he didn't go, the base umpire should come up RIGHT AWAY, with out being checked too, if in his opinion, the batter did go!

This is a very simple play, that happens quite a bit, with a very simple answer!

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by Maz17

the base umpire should come up RIGHT AWAY, with out being checked too, if in his opinion, the batter did go!

Excuse me? That's not his call.

PU should make a quick appeal without being asked if there is any question. I've never heard that BU should simply make a call on this without being asked by PU.

I disagree with this assement.

On topic, no, like everyone else has stated

[Matt]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

Excuse me? That's not his call.

PU should make a quick appeal without being asked if there is any question. I've never heard that BU should simply make a call on this without being asked by PU.

If on a potentially appealable swing/no swing call in which the batter may become a runner, BU needs to make and announce his decision without being requested via appeal. This is the voluntary strike mechanic.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

Excuse me? That's not his call.

PU should make a quick appeal without being asked if there is any question. I've never heard that BU should simply make a call on this without being asked by PU.

I disagree with this assement.

On topic, no, like everyone else has stated

Sorry, but Maz and Matt are correct. You come right out with it in such a case. BU does not wait for the PU to appeal. I don't know how long this mechanic has been in force, but it seems like years.

[SAump]

How a question turned into a difference of opinion on an unusual umpire mechanic. I applaud whoever asked the original question.

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Sorry, but Maz and Matt are correct. You come right out with it in such a case. BU does not wait for the PU to appeal. I don't know how long this mechanic has been in force, but it seems like years.

OK -

It seems odd though that it has not been mentioned at any clinic I've attended. Clinics taught by MLB and NCAA umps with a lot of years of experience, a couple of which have taught at Harry's.

Not arguing it, it just seems like someone would have mentioned it.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Sorry, but Maz and Matt are correct. You come right out with it in such a case. BU does not wait for the PU to appeal. I don't know how long this mechanic has been in force, but it seems like years.

It's listed specifically in the 2007 MLBUM. I think it's been a relatively new mechanic up here in MN anyway. It was taught to immediately ask, but this mechanic is better...if he goes, BU should simply signal yes he went. The other side of it is that the batter/runner should be coached to sprint it out either way in this case...much like the infield fly rule where it's stated that the players are responsible for knowing the rule regardless of whether or not IFF is called

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

Excuse me? That's not his call.

PU should make a quick appeal without being asked if there is any question. I've never heard that BU should simply make a call on this without being asked by PU.

I disagree with this assement.

On topic, no, like everyone else has stated

By now you know that it *can* be an accepted mechanic.

That said, if the mechanic is not used in your area, I wouldn't spring it on an unsuspecting PU without discussing it in the pre-game.

And, if you're the PU, you can ask for help without being asked by the defense -- it's almost as good as BU just coming up with the call.

Either way, it lets both teams know what is going on and helps (but, as Kevin illustrates doesn't eliminate) avoid the post-call-reversal discussions / third world plays that might happen.

[jkumpire]

With respect,

The voluntary strike mechanic is a good idea. However, the MLBUM mechanics book is not the law for mechanics except in MLB/MiLB. And if the 2007 manual is the first one with it in, then a lot of good umpires are behind the times. I would encourage you good people who have the manual to bring this to the attention of the CCA guys (for example), and see if they will include it in the future.

I could see multiple big time discussions with a BU who uses this on a field today on many levels of baseball.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by Maz17

, the base umpire should come up RIGHT AWAY, with out being checked too,

The base umpire might be calling balls and strikes from the A position if he steamrolls the PU like that. You offer help ONLY IF ASKED by the PU in this situation.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by KenL.nation

bases loaded,2 strikes on the batter. The next pitch, batter check swings.
The ball gets by the catcher. Now heres the tricky part, R3 crosses the plate
before the catcher dives and tags the batter/runner. The check swing was appealed to the base ump, he called it a strike for the 3rd out.
Does the run score ?

I'm sorry, I must have missed the tricky part.

Batter retired for the third out before safely reaching first base. No run scores.

[SAump]

Now heres the tricky part, R3 crosses the plate before the catcher dives and tags the batter/runner.

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

I'm sorry, I must have missed the tricky part.

Batter retired for the third out before safely reaching first base. No run scores.

Most catchers dive towards the plate. This catcher dives and tags the the B/R.
You would have to wonder why he dove at the B/R. Wierd?

[Maz17]

You guys can blast me all you want. You can Harry's School, Jim's School, NCAA Clinic, Arizona Umpire Academy, O.U.T.S. Clinic me all you want. Here is the ultimate, CRYSTAL CLEAR and Highest authority on this question!!!

THE MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL UMPIRE MANUAL (Yes...I have one!)
READ CAREFULLY

Section 8.7

"VOLUNTARY STRIKE"

In the situation where the third strike eludes the catcher on a half-swing and the batter/runner is entitled to first base, the appeal should be made to the base umpire instantly (without waiting for a request from the defense); but even if the appeal is not instant, the appropriate base umpire should immediately and voluntarilymake a call of strike IF the base umpire is going to reverse the plate umpire's call. This will give the batter/runner the immediate opportunity to run.


And as for the original question, if the batter/runner has not reached first base, and the batter/runner is retired, NO RUNS CAN SCORE!!!