missed 1st base mechanic

[archangel]

Ok, I'm a big believer in looking/finding for your own answers--just another good reason to get my nose back in the books.
There also comes a time when one just has to say 'You're a dummy, ask for help".....
I'm looking for the FED mechanic for BU when the BR beats the throw to F3 but misses the bag.
Its been my understanding that a silent "safe" arms outstretched mechanic is the recommended one, as the runner is considered to have "safely reached the bag" until an appeal.... whereas a "no mechanic" tips off the defense= unfair advantage. The defense then has to appeal or tag the BR or bag prior to BR returning to the bag.

I can only find casebook 8-2-3(pg67) "BR ...arrives safely but misses 1st base..." or the Umpires Manual (pg 35) #19 Appeal Play: "When an umpire observes a base running error, he should make no verbal or non verbal statement that could tip either team."

If possible, the book and page # would be appreciated.
Thanks, Dan

[mbyron]

Professional instruction on this play is: use your usual "safe" mechanic and verbalize "Safe!" If the batter-runner beats the throw, then he has acquired the base and he is safe. I do nothing different from the play where the BR touches the base before the throw arrives.

If the defense appeals the missed base before BR returns to the base, I will rule on it.

I don't have much use for the FED umpire manual, and I can't find my red book at the moment, sorry.

[SanDiegoSteve]

In my opinion, the FED umpire manual is a piece of garbage, which is where it would have ended up if I had ever seen one in 20+ years of HS baseball.

I would, as Mbyron says, go ahead and make your usual safe call. By giving the silent treatment, you are actually going against the book by the non-verbal statement of not saying, "safe," like you would usually do. That could tip off the defense even more than a verbal call.

Call the runner safe, as if he touched the base, and make the defense be bright enough to notice that he didn't touch the base.

[socalblue1]

Make your normal safe call because the runner IS safe until a proper and timely appeal by the defense.

Runner is assumed to have legally acquired a base when passing, even if missed, until properly appealed.

[DonInKansas]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

Runner is assumed to have legally acquired a base when passing, even if missed, until properly appealed.

Got a rules reference for this? I don't believe a runner has a base until he touches it.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by DonInKansas

Got a rules reference for this? I don't believe a runner has a base until he touches it.

My thinking exactly. If the defense touches the base, accidentally or on purpose, before the runner returns, I find it hard to believe that I can't call him out. This is rewarding the offense for messing up.

That said, if the defense never touches the bag (or the runner), I've got nothing. The runner will return and touch the bag.

What's the mechanic for the same play at the plate? AFAIK, I make no call until:

1) The runner enters the dugout
2) The runner comes back and touches the plate
3) The defense tags the runner (or the plate if he's making no effort to return)

[David B]

Originally Posted by yawetag

My thinking exactly. If the defense touches the base, accidentally or on purpose, before the runner returns, I find it hard to believe that I can't call him out. This is rewarding the offense for messing up.

That said, if the defense never touches the bag (or the runner), I've got nothing. The runner will return and touch the bag.

What's the mechanic for the same play at the plate? AFAIK, I make no call until:

1) The runner enters the dugout
2) The runner comes back and touches the plate
3) The defense tags the runner (or the plate if he's making no effort to return)

FED used to use the accidental appeal; however, they have since taken it out. I will have to look up the references, don't have my books with me, but I think it was a couple of years ago.

thanks
David

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by David B

FED used to use the accidental appeal; however, they have since taken it out. I will have to look up the references, don't have my books with me, but I think it was a couple of years ago.

thanks
David

I thought that, too, and was looking for the rule reference, but found this instead:

Casebook 8.2.3 Situation: B1 hits a slow roller to F5 and arrivs safely but misses first base. F3 catches the ball with his foot off the base and casually steps on first base, although he believes the runner has beaten the throw. RULING: B1 is out. Because a force play is being made on the runner and the result of continuing action, F3 is required to appeal the missed base and does so by stepping on the missed base.

This sounds like an accidental appeal to me.

[dash_riprock]

That's FED for ya. Clear as mud.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

I thought that, too, and was looking for the rule reference, but found this instead:

Casebook 8.2.3 Situation: B1 hits a slow roller to F5 and arrivs safely but misses first base. F3 catches the ball with his foot off the base and casually steps on first base, although he believes the runner has beaten the throw. RULING: B1 is out. Because a force play is being made on the runner and the result of continuing action, F3 is required to appeal the missed base and does so by stepping on the missed base.

This sounds like an accidental appeal to me.

When FED removed the accidental appeal from the rule book they neglected to delete that situation from the casebook. Elliot Hopkis acknowledged that fact and issued a statement that that ruling was no longer accurate. He issued a statement again the next year when that situation still appeared in the book

Why it remains unedited to this date is a mystery, but the fact is the accidental appeal has been removed from the rule book, and that was a POE at the time.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

When FED removed the accidental appeal from the rule book they neglected to delete that situation from the casebook. Elliot Hopkis acknowledged that fact and issued a statement that that ruling was no longer accurate. He issued a statement again the next year when that situation still appeared in the book

Why it remains unedited to this date is a mystery, but the fact is the accidental appeal has been removed from the rule book, and that was a POE at the time.

This is correct. You can X out that case play if you like: it is no longer a valid ruling.

[yawetag]

So let me get this straight so I don't look like the rookie umpire:

BR misses 1B without defense tag of base or runner before BR passes: Signal safe and wait for an appeal.

BR misses 1B with purposeful tag of base or runner after BR passes (no verbal appeal is made): Signal safe and wait for verbal appeal.

BR misses 1B with appeal: Call BR out on appeal.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by yawetag

So let me get this straight so I don't look like the rookie umpire:

BR misses 1B without defense tag of base or runner before BR passes: Signal safe and wait for an appeal.

Correct.

BR misses 1B with purposeful tag of base or runner after BR passes (no verbal appeal is made): Signal safe and wait for verbal appeal.

Incorrect. A "purposeful" tag is regarded as a non verbal appeal. What the rule eliminated is the accidental touch, like tripping over the bag.

BR misses 1B with appeal: Call BR out on appeal.

Correct.

[Umpmazza]

wow this is gonna be a 5 page thread on this.... its not hard.. the runner is safe until the defense appeals... if a runner leaves a base early on a fly ball, do you call him out cause he left early, or do you wait till the defense appeals? Its not rocket science guys. sorry if i make someone mad.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Umpmazza

wow this is gonna be a 5 page thread on this.... its not hard.. the runner is safe until the defense appeals... if a runner leaves a base early on a fly ball, do you call him out cause he left early, or do you wait till the defense appeals? Its not rocket science guys. sorry if i make someone mad.

Well it's not quite that easy. Thanks goodness we have an umpire who actually wants to learn a rule application.

What they eliminated was plays like R1, BR hits into the gap and R1 misses
2B on the way to third. Until a couple of years ago, if F9 threw the ball in to F6 and he accidentally stepped on the bag, you had an out.

Now, it requires an actual appeal.

Same with the play at 1B, it's a little tricky. And of course you have plays at the plate which are completely different.

So, it's not rocket science, but its not all that easy to understand either.

Thanks
David