When to call Time on an injury (FED)

[Tom H.]

Hello Forum!
Looking for opinions on a play that I had yesterday (‘scrimmage game’ but all calls ‘live’) that involved an injury.
R1 & R2 -- GB to F4 who does not pick it up clean – F4 decides to go to 1B for the sure out – F3 stretching for throw & ball beats the BR – BR “misses” the base but not F3’s foot/ankle (BR had to step on the 2B side of bag to make this contact—at first not sure on intention, later felt that it was unintentional just dumb) –F3 goes down in a heap & is rolling around still in possession of the ball. From what I saw of the contact by the BR on F3 and his reaction I felt that it could be a significant injury. Meanwhile F2 was heading for Home and F1 for 3B.
I then called Time and told runners to return to 2B & 3B and allowed the HC to attend to F3. Prior to returning to game play the Offensive HC wanted an explanation of why I called Time and did not let runs score (he was ‘loosing’ by a lot of runs). I told him that safety of the players was the reason. As I watched the BR’s reaction to what happened I was convinced that it was not intentional (if it was an intentional act there would be no way that I would let them gain an advantage and would have an EJ).
If I am remembering my rule correctly an injury to a player NOT directly involved in a ‘play’ is delayed DB so perhaps I ‘pulled the trigger’ prematurely but with the fact that it was not a ‘regular’ game (scrimmage) and the possibility of intention I killed the play. Made this decision in the span of 5-10 seconds.
What say ye?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Tom H.

Hello Forum!
Looking for opinions on a play that I had yesterday (‘scrimmage game’ but all calls ‘live’) that involved an injury.
R1 & R2 -- GB to F4 who does not pick it up clean – F4 decides to go to 1B for the sure out – F3 stretching for throw & ball beats the BR – BR “misses” the base but not F3’s foot/ankle (BR had to step on the 2B side of bag to make this contact—at first not sure on intention, later felt that it was unintentional just dumb) –F3 goes down in a heap & is rolling around still in possession of the ball. From what I saw of the contact by the BR on F3 and his reaction I felt that it could be a significant injury. Meanwhile F2 was heading for Home and F1 for 3B.
I then called Time and told runners to return to 2B & 3B and allowed the HC to attend to F3. Prior to returning to game play the Offensive HC wanted an explanation of why I called Time and did not let runs score (he was ‘loosing’ by a lot of runs). I told him that safety of the players was the reason. As I watched the BR’s reaction to what happened I was convinced that it was not intentional (if it was an intentional act there would be no way that I would let them gain an advantage and would have an EJ).
If I am remembering my rule correctly an injury to a player NOT directly involved in a ‘play’ is delayed DB so perhaps I ‘pulled the trigger’ prematurely but with the fact that it was not a ‘regular’ game (scrimmage) and the possibility of intention I killed the play. Made this decision in the span of 5-10 seconds.
What say ye?

5-2-1-d

You don't call time unless further play would jeopardize the injured player's safety.

[Bishopcolle]

Delayed dead ball? Not really dead, is it? I think it is a delayed "time out call." Let the play run, you can still eject if after you think it through you find intent...It is not a "serious" injury, like a blow to the head, so I think I'd let it play out....

[DG]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

Delayed dead ball? Not really dead, is it? I think it is a delayed "time out call." Let the play run, you can still eject if after you think it through you find intent...It is not a "serious" injury, like a blow to the head, so I think I'd let it play out....

Malicious contact is immediate dead ball. So if you are going to eject the BR then runners go back. Since BR is also out before reaching 1B I expect the runners would go back to TOP base.

Incidently, a pre-season scrimmage game would be a real good time to eject for MC so he might be more careful when the season starts.

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by DG

Malicious contact is immediate dead ball. So if you are going to eject the BR then runners go back. Since BR is also out before reaching 1B I expect the runners would go back to TOP base.

Incidently, a pre-season scrimmage game would be a real good time to eject for MC so he might be more careful when the season starts.

I agree with you on the MC...if that is what you have, bang it dead immediately....but

"at first not sure on intention, later felt that it was unintentional just dumb" with this as his statement, I was thinking delayed time-out...let it play, and then make a ruling....

[jicecone]

As with all calls "Good Judgement" is required.

I have officiated many many sporting contests in both ice hockey and baseball, just remember, you are certified to officiate. When you receive your board certification to practice medicine, then will you be able to make that call perfectly. If you have to error, Error on the side of safety.

Any coach that questions that, should not be allowed around kids.

[mbyron]

Here's how I think of this question. Suppose you let play continue. How long will that take? 10 seconds? Can't the average batter runner get around the bases (4x90 feet = 360 feet = 120 yards) in less than 15 seconds? That's not much time.

So now ask yourself: in what kinds of cases will 10 or 15 seconds make a difference? That's the only difference between stopping play immediately and letting play continue.

One answer has already been given: if the injured player is at risk of further injury, then kill it.

If the injured player is unconscious, has stopped breathing, or is bleeding from the ears (serious head injury), then 10-20 seconds can make a difference. If the injured player is cut so badly that you see arterial spray, then you also need to stop play. These injuries are quite rare, but if you happen to see you address it immediately.

Some guys add a compound fracture (bone sticking through skin), which is kind of a gross injury and has additional risk of shock. It's not, however, life threatening, and 10 seconds will not make a difference -- it doesn't meet my test.

Otherwise, let play continue. If a coach complains, tell him that you saw the injury, that by rule we play on, and that the 10 seconds needed to do so didn't make a difference to the injured player's condition. Heck, the first 10 seconds they stand around an injured player and ask where it hurts.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Tom H.

Hello Forum!


F3 goes down in a heap & is rolling around still in possession of the ball. From what I saw of the contact by the BR on F3 and his reaction I felt that it could be a significant injury. Meanwhile F2 was heading for Home and F1 for 3B.

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]I then called Time and told runners to return to 2B & 3B and allowed the HC to attend to F3. Prior to returning to game play the Offensive HC wanted an explanation of why I called Time and did not let runs score (he was ‘loosing’ by a lot of runs). I told him that safety of the players was the reason.

Where was F4 / F1 during this time?

When F1 / F4 saw their teammate lying on the ground, why didn't they come over and simply take the ball out of F3's glove, keep the other runners at bay and then ask for TIME which they would have received.

I agree err on the side of safety but what were F3's teammates doing during this time, simply watching F3 in pain and making no attempt to get the ball.

IMO, be careful when calling time because at that precise moment (most things happen in a heartbeat) you cannot tell if the player is truly hurt or simply faking it to keep the runners from scoring.

As another poster said we are officials NOT Doctors.

In Summary: I would let play continue. It's up to F3's teammates to come over, get the ball and then STOP play.

Pete Booth

[BigGref]

I want to throw a quick side question out there.

Who calls this? (2 man)
Base umpire always?
base umpire if in B or C will have difficulty seeing if BR was coming inside
I think Base Ump can see this pretty clearly A.
Can/should PU call this

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigGref

I want to throw a quick side question out there.

Who calls this? (2 man)
Base umpire always?
base umpire if in B or C will have difficulty seeing if BR was coming inside
I think Base Ump can see this pretty clearly A.
Can/should PU call this

PU has running lane violations. Both have interference responsibilities.