Time Out for Injury

[nukewhistle]

B1 fouls A1. A1 is injured.Team A in bonus.Team A coach summoned on court for the injury. Team A calls time out to keep A1 in the game. Team A substitutes for A1 prior to first horn during time out. Is this legal?

[Nevadaref]

If A1 has recovered and is able to play by the end of the time-out, then he must attempt the FTs for the personal foul. If A1 is unable to play due to the injury despite the extra time provided by the time-out that his team took, then his substitute must enter and attempt the FTs.

[rainmaker]

nuke --

I'm not sure what you're asking. If A takes a time out to keep the player in, and then the sub comes in prior to the first horn anyway, it's legal, as long as the sub takes the shots, and then A1 can't return until the next dead ball/clock stoppage. Does that cover it?

[tjones1]

If Team A buys A1 back into the game by calling timeout and A1 isn't ready to play when the timeout has expired you still have to sub for A1, don't you?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by tjones1

If Team A buys A1 back into the game by calling timeout and A1 isn't ready to play when the timeout has expired you still have to sub for A1, don't you?

No, the team could take a 2nd time-out to provide even more time if A1 needed it. In other words they still don't have to sub for him yet. Sorry that my earlier post neglected to mention that.

BTW, please refrain from using the words in red. That kind of coach-speak only serves to perpetuate basketball myths.

A1 never left the game. He has been a player the entire time. No other team member has substituted for him, right? So why does he need to be bought "back into the game?"

All the time-out does is allow A1 to remain in the game.

[tjones1]

That terminology is what our RI has said and I also believe that’s how it was stated (or titled) in the Basketball Guide two years ago.

[JRutledge]

Tanner,

Those words are exactly how it was discribed in the literature. It was used to help people understand the rule much better.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by tjones1

That terminology is what our RI has said and I also believe that’s how it was stated (or titled) in the Basketball Guide two years ago.

Tanner,
I don't recall what the NFHS Preseason Guide said. I'll have to go find mine and look. I can't speak to what your RI said, other than to state that if those are the words you used then he chose poorly.
However, I can tell you that it was not written that way in either 2002-03 or 2004-05 when the rule was first put in and then clarified. All of the references in the NFHS Rules Books, including the current rule 3-3-6 Note, say "keep" or "remain in the game".

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Tanner,
I don't recall what the NFHS Preseason Guide said. I'll have to go find mine and look. I can't speak to what your RI said, other than to state that if those are the words you used then he chose poorly.
However, I can tell you that it was not written that way in either 2002-03 or 2004-05 when the rule was first put in and then clarified. All of the references in the NFHS Rules Books, including the current rule 3-3-6 Note, say "keep" or "remain in the game".

Noted! Thanks Nevada.... guessing you have the night off too?!

[Nevadaref]

Yes, I have my first game of the season tomorrow night.

Also, it was not my intent to hassle you, just to try to help. Frequently precision is our best friend when attempting to deal with a tough rules situation.

[nukewhistle]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

nuke --

I'm not sure what you're asking. If A takes a time out to keep the player in, and then the sub comes in prior to the first horn anyway, it's legal, as long as the sub takes the shots, and then A1 can't return until the next dead ball/clock stoppage. Does that cover it?

This was a close girls varsity game late in the 4th qtr./10 team foul bonus in effect so the A team coach replaced the injured A1 player with a substitute during the time out requested after the foul/injury. I believe the coach wanted a substitute better free thrower. My partner the Ref would not allow the substitution that I allowed. It didn't seem right so that's why I'm asking the experts here.

Thanks

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by nukewhistle

This was a close girls varsity game late in the 4th qtr./10 team foul bonus in effect so the A team coach replaced the injured A1 player with a substitute during the time out requested after the foul/injury. I believe the coach wanted a substitute better free thrower. My partner the Ref would not allow the substitution that I allowed. It didn't seem right so that's why I'm asking the experts here.

Thanks

So if the player is no longer injured at the end of the time-out and is ready to play, then your partner was right and that player takes the FTs. If A1 is unable to play due to the earlier injury, then the coach may substitute for the player and the substitute takes the FTs. In that case, you would be correct.

Unfortunately, there is a tremendous potential for abuse of this rule at the NFHS and NCAA levels.
The NBA insists that the player who was fouled attempt the FT, if a substitute must enter and take the shots then the original player is out for the remainder of the game.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Frequently precision is our best friend when attempting to deal with a tough rules situation.

Hear, hear!

[nukewhistle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

So if the player is no longer injured at the end of the time-out and is ready to play, then your partner was right and that player takes the FTs. If A1 is unable to play due to the earlier injury, then the coach may substitute for the player and the substitute takes the FTs. In that case, you would be correct.

Unfortunately, there is a tremendous potential for abuse of this rule at the NFHS and NCAA levels.
The NBA insists that the player who was fouled attempt the FT, if a substitute must enter and take the shots then the original player is out for the remainder of the game.

So who is the judge of "the player is no longer injured"? The ref and/or umpire? The coach? What if the injured player passes out at the free throw line?

The NBA rule should be the high school rule.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by nukewhistle

So who is the judge of "the player is no longer injured"? The ref and/or umpire? The coach? What if the injured player passes out at the free throw line?

The NBA rule should be the high school rule.

I agree, and that is why I wrote that there is "tremendous potential for abuse."