When to call Time on an injury (FED)

[CajunNewBlue]

hrmmm.... hard to not say "intentional" when practice after practice they are taught/instructed to run and touch the bag.... then they don't put into play what they practice... i judge that as intentional. ie: they know to run and touch the bag and chose NOT to do that....if he had stumbled, or had been bumped or had pressure from a foul side throw.. maybe not intentional..... but, that's just me.

[johnnyg08]

I saw it one time two years ago and one time last year. I have gotten to the point where I am considering ejecting the next player at the high school varsity level and above because the more I think about it, I was pretty fast back in the day and attempted bunt singles many, many times and not one time did I ever come near F3's foot. I guess I'm having a hard time seeing it as accidental upon further review.

[johnnyg08]

I skimmed through the case book and the 2009 Rules by Topic and didn't see this rule...but I did skim through the books...

[SAump]

Some teams think the bag is in the base path and the runner is entitled to run through the bag. I saw the same batter run into F3 on two seperate occasions. The first time, he successfully manages to seperate F3 from the ball. The second time, he was out. I couldn't read intent, but I warned him to avoid contact with the fielder. His coach thought I shouldn't have said anything about it.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by SAump

Some teams think the bag is in the base path and the runner is entitled to run through the bag. I saw the same batter run into F3 on two seperate occasions. The first time, he successfully manages to seperate F3 from the ball. The second time, he was out. I couldn't read intent, but I warned him to avoid contact with the fielder. His coach thought I shouldn't have said anything about it.

Why wouldn't they be allowed/entitled to run thru the bag? if F3 blocks the bag and only gives them the very outside/foul side of first i might be inclined to call OBS (if the runner changes direction or is impeded)..ohh wait this is baseball...never mind

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SAump

Some teams think the bag is in the base path and the runner is entitled to run through the bag.

I agree with "some teams." I have no idea what transpired in your plays, or what this has to do with the OP.

[SAump]

I then called Time and told runners to return to 2B & 3B and allowed the HC to attend to F3. Prior to returning to game play the Offensive HC wanted an explanation of why I called Time and did not let runs score (he was ‘loosing’ by a lot of runs).

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Malicious contact requires excessive force and/or intent to injure - any maybe avoidable contact. Too many people are judging any contact as malicious.

Can or should this contact between F3 and B/R be considered interference, if not malicious contact? No runs would have scored in a 2 out situation as a result of the 3rd out made at 1B. The judgment made to determine interference is based on whether or not other baserunners would have chosen to advance had F3 not fallen to the ground, and for no other cause. Interference in this situation would also immediately kill the play and not require an "injury" time out. The closest rules I could find relate to 5.1.1.e {et al.}.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I agree with "some teams." I have no idea what transpired in your plays, or what this has to do with the OP.

In both situations, F3 did not do anything, in my best judgment, to warrant collision with B/R. Everyone in "my" play knew the runner would be out at 1B. I never saw a B/R collide with F3 on consecutive plays. I didn't know he would be running into F3 again. Did the B/R know this? I don't know. But I felt that he may have purposely run into F3 in an effort to dislodge the ball because of the previous play. I had to say something to him and his coach came out to defend his player for running through the bag. Considering player safety is a situational thing. I agree with the umpire's actions in the OP. The situation does not excuse a B/R for haphazardly running through a bag. It was the right thing to do.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Malicious contact requires excessive force and/or intent to injure - any maybe avoidable contact. Too many people are judging any contact as malicious.

Going on the fair side of the bag for no apparent reason is a malicious act. And I like to let guys play the game. But that's the kind of chickens--t bush move that must result in an ejection for more than one key reason, including preventing a retaliatory act.

I am not looking for ejections, but that would be one of them.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SAump

In both situations, F3 did not do anything, in my best judgment, to warrant collision with B/R.

As I read the play (and it's hard to do), BR ran through the bag and then collided with F3. So, F3 was (approximately) on the foul line toward right field? WTF was he doing there? While being there doesn't "warrant" a collision, it sure puts him in jeopardy of one.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Tom H.

Hello Forum!


F3 goes down in a heap & is rolling around still in possession of the ball. From what I saw of the contact by the BR on F3 and his reaction I felt that it could be a significant injury. Meanwhile F2 was heading for Home and F1 for 3B.

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]I then called Time and told runners to return to 2B & 3B and allowed the HC to attend to F3. Prior to returning to game play the Offensive HC wanted an explanation of why I called Time and did not let runs score (he was ‘loosing’ by a lot of runs). I told him that safety of the players was the reason.

Where was F4 / F1 during this time?

When F1 / F4 saw their teammate lying on the ground, why didn't they come over and simply take the ball out of F3's glove, keep the other runners at bay and then ask for TIME which they would have received.

I agree err on the side of safety but what were F3's teammates doing during this time, simply watching F3 in pain and making no attempt to get the ball.

IMO, be careful when calling time because at that precise moment (most things happen in a heartbeat) you cannot tell if the player is truly hurt or simply faking it to keep the runners from scoring.

As another poster said we are officials NOT Doctors.

In Summary: I would let play continue. It's up to F3's teammates to come over, get the ball and then STOP play.

Pete Booth

[BigGref]

I want to throw a quick side question out there.

Who calls this? (2 man)
Base umpire always?
base umpire if in B or C will have difficulty seeing if BR was coming inside
I think Base Ump can see this pretty clearly A.
Can/should PU call this

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigGref

I want to throw a quick side question out there.

Who calls this? (2 man)
Base umpire always?
base umpire if in B or C will have difficulty seeing if BR was coming inside
I think Base Ump can see this pretty clearly A.
Can/should PU call this

PU has running lane violations. Both have interference responsibilities.