You make the call

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Watch it nine more times. It looks more and more malicious each time.

Watched it about 10 times and he started to slide before the batters box, yes he jumped, but I don't think it was malicious, and this is just my opinion nothing more.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Umpmazza

Watched it about 10 times and he started to slide before the batters box, yes he jumped, but I don't think it was malicious, and this is just my opinion nothing more.

I just saw it for the first time. What i saw was a player leaping into the air before the batter's box and actually beginning to "slide" at the plate.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

Finally, if you are getting grief because you believe that undertrained umpires are influencing the observers, then it is probably not the fault of that poor unfortunate undertrained umpire, it is you.

I'm not getting grief. I usually get what I deserve. And it's almost always positive, because I am almost always early, ready, hustling, authoritative, responsible and in adherence with the codes and standards of umpiring, because I love the game, and the umpiring profession. You are not judging me fairly at all.

And if you don't think that youth umpiring forms high school parents' opinions of umpiring, then you are not really judging that fairly, either.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

I hope your high horse bucks you off instead of me asking you to get off it. You don't know the situation with these games.

Why is it that "established" umpires always want to pick apart someone because of thier appearance, mechanics, etc. especially at low level games? Where I live, there is hardly any training that is substansive for the umpires that are already in the game let alone new guys. Instead of taking this kid aside and telling him how bad he looks, help him out and train him. You don't like his appearance, give him one of your shirts. You don't like how he clears the catcher, show him. When was the last time you visited a baseball game in a non-umpire capacity and offered your advice to a new umpire?

Finally, if you are getting grief because you believe that undertrained umpires are influencing the observers, then it is probably not the fault of that poor unfortunate undertrained umpire, it is you.

After reading this thread again, I want to publicly appologize to Kevin Finnerty for my quick assumptions. Maybe I need to look in the mirror.

It just gets tiresome hearing about these young umpires being the bane of our existence. My first umpiring gig happened when I was 17. They needed umps and I said sure. They handed me gear, balloon and all, and said have at it. This was for 15-16 year old "teener" ball, pre-legion. Top of the line baseball for that age in my area. Who is to say that this still doesn't happen? When we see these you-tube clips, we have no other information to base our opinions on, yet we go right after them.

P.S. I have nothing from the clip. My first impression after seeing it was that sliding needs to be incorporated into their practices. I would have had the coaches ear, privately, and let him know that they need to get down sooner. The first impression counts for me, cause that is all I would have had, had I been forced to make an immediate ruling.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Umpmazza

Ozzy...the FPSR in NCAA pertains only to a force play situation at any base, regardless of the number of outs. So in that aspect how do you have him out for FPSR? Please believe me I'm just asking as I have always like your comments.

I can either eject him under FPSR or 8-7's Collision rule. Because the runner jumped and threw his legs out, he's a dead duck even with minimal contact. Remember, even in NCAA, safety is still a high priority. Will I get into a "discussion" with the player's HC? Probably!

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

The runner didn't slide at all, and that's the problem. He tried to make a flying jump kick at the play in order to break up the possibility of being tagged. It was only out of luck that the pitcher, not the catcher, wasn't injured on the play. I never once mentioned that I would eject the runner for MC. But for unsportsmanlike conduct, he's done for the day in a game I'm working. I don't understand how you would allow such crap in a game. If you leave this alone, there's bound to be an amount of retaliation coming.


Tim.

e

I've got nothing. Where's the malicious contact? If you eject for intent be ready to eject the head coach as well.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I can either eject him under FPSR or 8-7's Collision rule. Because the runner jumped and threw his legs out, he's a dead duck even with minimal contact. Remember, even in NCAA, safety is still a high priority. Will I get into a "discussion" with the player's HC? Probably!

If you eject and site FPSR are you calling the batter out as well? By rule you have to. Since there's no malicious contact how can you eject? Under all codes I've got nothing.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I can either eject him under FPSR or 8-7's Collision rule. Because the runner jumped and threw his legs out, he's a dead duck even with minimal contact. Remember, even in NCAA, safety is still a high priority. Will I get into a "discussion" with the player's HC? Probably!

Ozzy i can see kind of where in the FPSR you can get him... Illegal slide. But in the Collision rule it says that the fielder MUST have possesion of the ball. but in 8-7b.a.r. If the base runner collides flagrantly, the runner shall be declared safe on the obstruction, ( which there was none on this play) but will be EJ from the Contest. The ball is dead.. SO I can kind of agree with you, but I still think he was just being stupid... Would this happen in a College or higher game? No cause the players are smarter and are more worried about getting hurt.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

If you eject and site FPSR are you calling the batter out as well? By rule you have to. Since there's no malicious contact how can you eject? Under all codes I've got nothing.

YEs your right about the EJ in FPSR but this was a passed ball and the batter was not a batter runner, so that would be tough to sell to the OC.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

After reading this thread again, I want to publicly appologize to Kevin Finnerty for my quick assumptions. Maybe I need to look in the mirror.

THANK YOU!

Very classy. And no need to look in the mirror.

[Klokard]

We really can pick this PU apart but why? Strong possibility these kids would not be playing if not for this volunteer. Many youth Leagues rely totally on volunteer umpires to keep participation fees affordable for everyone. Now, if I knew for a fact that he was collecting a game fee, I believe I would have more a problem with the instructional chair of his group than the ump. Just my dos pesos.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

e

I've got nothing. Where's the malicious contact? If you eject for intent be ready to eject the head coach as well.

If you'll look earlier in the thread you'll see that I made mention that I wouldn't eject him for MC. I would eject him for unsportsmanlike conduct. If the manager doesn't like it, he can join the player in the parking lot. If you look closely at the clip and pause it just as the runner is over the plate, you'll see that the only thing that kept the pitcher from getting spiked is the toss from F2 forcing him to lift his glove at the last second. A runner doesn't jump two foot in the air, ten feet from the plate, and try to land on a fielders glove without malicious intent.


Tim.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Klokard

We really can pick this PU apart but why? Strong possibility these kids would not be playing if not for this volunteer. Many youth Leagues rely totally on volunteer umpires to keep participation fees affordable for everyone. Now, if I knew for a fact that he was collecting a game fee, I believe I would have more a problem with the instructional chair of his group than the ump. Just my dos pesos.

The league that I referred to is in an affluent area, does pay its umpires, and does have an instructor/supervisor. And still these kids who have little or no respect for the game are thrown out there with little training and orientation to stain the diamond just to save a buck.

The same parents for whom the leagues are trying to keep things affordable are the first people to complain about how horrible the umpiring is. It's a joke. If the priority is keeping the playing fees low, then the priorities are skewed.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I can either eject him under FPSR or 8-7's Collision rule. Because the runner jumped and threw his legs out, he's a dead duck even with minimal contact. Remember, even in NCAA, safety is still a high priority. Will I get into a "discussion" with the player's HC? Probably!

That makes no sense. There is no one on first or second base so R3 could not be forced and on top of that there isn't even a batted ball. The FPSR has nothing to do with this at all.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I have him with malicious intent before he lands.

So, no run.