Gray Area Strikes

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by SAump

Picture that pitch 2 balls on the inside or outside as a strike.
Its not as hard as trying to stray up or down in the zone.

Pause, Read and React.

It takes a lot of balls to post something like this!

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by SAump

Picture that pitch 2 balls on the inside or outside as a strike.
Its not as hard as trying to stray up or down in the zone.

Pause, Read and React.

I think after reading a lot of your post in the last few days.... I have no frickin idea what your are saying nor have i ever... most of the time you make no sense at all.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by SAump

I am stealing a strike. Always have, always will!

If R1 makes it to 2B or 3B, batter better be schwinging.
Batter better be working hard before I pick him up.
Hitchhiking hitters won't get a free ride from me.
I prefer to see B?R running to 1B and then pivot.

I can hear the music now, "Swiped Out!"
Everyone knows what happens if a run is close.
Balls or runs don't make up the missing pay from my hourly rate.

Come on, that is some of the biggest BS you've posted yet! If you are doing your job correctly, you should be watching the pitch and calling it for what it is! I've balled plenty of pitches in this situation and hear F2 complain to me about how his pitcher can't hit the mark under pressure!

And yes, I have heard that adage but from MLB umpires, not amateur umpires.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Umpmazza

I think after reading a lot of your post in the last few days.... I have no frickin idea what your are saying nor have i ever... most of the time you make no sense at all.

I agree.

Look, SAUmp -- I'm trying to help. Seriously. But, most of your posts are not understandable most of the time. (And, to be fair, neither is that previous sentence.) Maybe you're trying to be cute or humorous. It isn't working. If you have a question, post it in a straighforward manner (e.g., perhaps your latest could have been worded, "Do you expand your zone when a runner is stealing?").

[Tim C]

"Seriously. But, most of your posts are not understandable most of the time."

And Bob, there in lies your basic problem.

Umpmazza, Finnerty and you have tried to do something that I gave up on long ago.

SAUmp simply does not make sense when he posts.

You can try to explain it by asking if he is trying to be funny I simply have come to the conclusion that his elevator stops somewhere short of the penthouse.

Regards,

[SAump]

Wow, I'm taking a lot a heat for preaching a liberal strike zone. My message has been consistent in this thread and if it is consistently wrong then so be it. I can accept it. I realized the thread turned into a discusion over the real strike zone and not the gray area nearby. I have no qualms about anyone else's strike zone. But I now know that any explanation or account I offer will never meet the raised expectations of half the viewing gallery, whether I call it a ball or strike.

I first stole pitches in post #3 of this thread. I said it is hard to steal a pitch from the top and bottom of the zone. I said it is much easier to take them inside and outside. I did not post again until page 4-5. I took exception to Kevin's assertion about an umpire being fair to both sides. I wrote several theme-related "episodes" about this undesirable position and posted the true strike zone, (3) + 3 + 17 + 3 + (3), seen here in black. I stated it is preferable to everyone involved to be fair to the pitchers because the batter's task at the plate is much easier to accomplish, whether one may consider this to be fair or foul {T/F?} assessment.

I began my reply w/ a MLB hitter's size and how much harder it is to pitch around him. Kevin stated a ball scraping the plate is a strike. I agreed those were textbook strikes and the goal of every good pitcher from LL to MLB. If touching the plate is fine, then scraping the plate is much better. I included 3 inches in red as "gray" area where I would judge the pitchers effectiveness at missing his true target which is a catcher's mitt located on the edge of the plate. I realize no pitch is perfect because the batter can still destroy it all with a good swing.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Wow, a lucid post! I'm duly impressed.

[Bob Bainter]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

I like it Kevin. I also try to ring up every pitch I consider borderline, unless F2 makes it look like a ball.

Best piece of advice I ever heard in the minor leagues was from Dan Rohn, who was a manager in the Mariners organization...

"Nobody ever complains with an umpire who calls strikes...just the ones who say "ball" all the time..."

[tballump]

Originally Posted by Bob Bainter

Best piece of advice I ever heard in the minor leagues was from Dan Rohn, who was a manager in the Mariners organization...

"Nobody ever complains with an umpire who calls strikes...just the ones who say "ball" all the time..."

Don't believe I saw big Dan taking out any ads in the paper with his advice to you, backing up Eric Gregg (God rest his soul) when he was crucified for calling strikes in the 1997 playoffs. Also, I believe if you check an old web site that SDS once posted http.//cascreamindude.livejournal.com/ on a guy that keeps the records of all the MLBU ejections, you will not find too many ejections over umpires calling a pitch a ball. The majority of the ejections came over pitches that the umpire called a strike.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by tballump

... Also, I believe if you check an old web site that SDS once posted http.//cascreamindude.livejournal.com/ on a guy that keeps the records of all the MLBU ejections, you will not find too many ejections over umpires calling a pitch a ball. The majority of the ejections came over pitches that the umpire called a strike.

19 ejections were correctly called strikes and 9 ejections were correctly called balls.
16 ejections were incorrectly called strikes and 4 ejections were incorrectly called balls.

12 ejections were correctly called out and 6 ejections were correctly called safe.
4 ejections were incorrectly called out and 1 ejection was incorrectly called safe.

Data suggests that the offense is more than twice as likely to dispute a call without regard for right or wrong. This may suggest that an umpire is more than likely to err on the side of the defense which has less opportunity to gripe under original customs and traditions of the game. The defense is usually smart enough to let sleeping dogs lie. IOW, with the unflattering remarks coming from the bench area, the offense may also harvest what it has sown.

Gray area strikes: Read someone's comment about the data on perceived balls and strikes.
Yahoo! Image Detail for www.baseball.bornbybits.com/blog/uploaded_images/braun_strike-713066.gif
Rulebook strikes versus measured strikes data: The eye of the umpire -- The Hardball Times
What does combining all available sets of data suggest? The difficulty is making a few tough borderline decisions {having zero sum effect over time} at critical points in the game.

Some humor is needed here and meant to loosen everyone up.
Yahoo! Image Detail for static.flickr.com/1109/559009729_aa9263456c.jpg
If anyone should hit or miss a gray area strike, it should be a little swinging Alberto Pujols.

[tip184]

Originally Posted by tballump

Don't believe I saw big Dan taking out any ads in the paper with his advice to you, backing up Eric Gregg (God rest his soul) when he was crucified for calling strikes in the 1997 playoffs. Also, I believe if you check an old web site that SDS once posted http.//cascreamindude.livejournal.com/ on a guy that keeps the records of all the MLBU ejections, you will not find too many ejections over umpires calling a pitch a ball. The majority of the ejections came over pitches that the umpire called a strike.

I think there is a tendency for "balls" umpires to take a lot less heat over balls and strikes than "strikes" umpires. Part of this is because the pitcher is 60 feet 6 inches away. It's also easier to disregard a ball call that might have been in the zone than it is to disregard a strike call that may have been outside the zone.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by tip184

I think there is a tendency for "balls" umpires to take a lot less heat over balls and strikes than "strikes" umpires. Part of this is because the pitcher is 60 feet 6 inches away. It's also easier to disregard a ball call that might have been in the zone than it is to disregard a strike call that may have been outside the zone.

tip184,

Wow! That's amazing!

Where you from?

How long do your games usually last?

JM (Umpire from another planet)

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by tip184

I think there is a tendency for "balls" umpires to take a lot less heat over balls and strikes than "strikes" umpires. Part of this is because the pitcher is 60 feet 6 inches away.

An adult league catcher argued with me while he was at bat about a 3-0 pitch that was in the "gray area" and I of course called it a strike. He started biatchin' about how it was a ball, and I told him "I'm not a ball umpire, I'm a strike umpire...nobody walks but the mailman, Hoss." He didn't like the next pitch I called either. Tough. I'd rather deal with that than to hear that my zone is the size of a shoebox and have my games last 4 hours. I usually averaged 1:25 to 1:45 in decently pitched games. Swingee the batee!

Originally Posted by tip184

It's also easier to disregard a ball call that might have been in the zone than it is to disregard a strike call that may have been outside the zone.

Easier for who, you, or the hundreds of people you're pissing off?

[Aging_Arbiter]

I'm sorry..........did I pick a bad day to join this forum??

[RPatrino]

Aging, it doesn't get any better, and sometimes its WORSE. Welcome aboard. This is a pretty friendly thread.