Gray Area Strikes

[tballump]

Originally Posted by Bob Bainter

Best piece of advice I ever heard in the minor leagues was from Dan Rohn, who was a manager in the Mariners organization...

"Nobody ever complains with an umpire who calls strikes...just the ones who say "ball" all the time..."

Don't believe I saw big Dan taking out any ads in the paper with his advice to you, backing up Eric Gregg (God rest his soul) when he was crucified for calling strikes in the 1997 playoffs. Also, I believe if you check an old web site that SDS once posted http.//cascreamindude.livejournal.com/ on a guy that keeps the records of all the MLBU ejections, you will not find too many ejections over umpires calling a pitch a ball. The majority of the ejections came over pitches that the umpire called a strike.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by tballump

... Also, I believe if you check an old web site that SDS once posted http.//cascreamindude.livejournal.com/ on a guy that keeps the records of all the MLBU ejections, you will not find too many ejections over umpires calling a pitch a ball. The majority of the ejections came over pitches that the umpire called a strike.

19 ejections were correctly called strikes and 9 ejections were correctly called balls.
16 ejections were incorrectly called strikes and 4 ejections were incorrectly called balls.

12 ejections were correctly called out and 6 ejections were correctly called safe.
4 ejections were incorrectly called out and 1 ejection was incorrectly called safe.

Data suggests that the offense is more than twice as likely to dispute a call without regard for right or wrong. This may suggest that an umpire is more than likely to err on the side of the defense which has less opportunity to gripe under original customs and traditions of the game. The defense is usually smart enough to let sleeping dogs lie. IOW, with the unflattering remarks coming from the bench area, the offense may also harvest what it has sown.

Gray area strikes: Read someone's comment about the data on perceived balls and strikes.
Yahoo! Image Detail for www.baseball.bornbybits.com/blog/uploaded_images/braun_strike-713066.gif
Rulebook strikes versus measured strikes data: The eye of the umpire -- The Hardball Times
What does combining all available sets of data suggest? The difficulty is making a few tough borderline decisions {having zero sum effect over time} at critical points in the game.

Some humor is needed here and meant to loosen everyone up.
Yahoo! Image Detail for static.flickr.com/1109/559009729_aa9263456c.jpg
If anyone should hit or miss a gray area strike, it should be a little swinging Alberto Pujols.

[tip184]

Originally Posted by tballump

Don't believe I saw big Dan taking out any ads in the paper with his advice to you, backing up Eric Gregg (God rest his soul) when he was crucified for calling strikes in the 1997 playoffs. Also, I believe if you check an old web site that SDS once posted http.//cascreamindude.livejournal.com/ on a guy that keeps the records of all the MLBU ejections, you will not find too many ejections over umpires calling a pitch a ball. The majority of the ejections came over pitches that the umpire called a strike.

I think there is a tendency for "balls" umpires to take a lot less heat over balls and strikes than "strikes" umpires. Part of this is because the pitcher is 60 feet 6 inches away. It's also easier to disregard a ball call that might have been in the zone than it is to disregard a strike call that may have been outside the zone.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by tip184

I think there is a tendency for "balls" umpires to take a lot less heat over balls and strikes than "strikes" umpires. Part of this is because the pitcher is 60 feet 6 inches away. It's also easier to disregard a ball call that might have been in the zone than it is to disregard a strike call that may have been outside the zone.

tip184,

Wow! That's amazing!

Where you from?

How long do your games usually last?

JM (Umpire from another planet)

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by tip184

I think there is a tendency for "balls" umpires to take a lot less heat over balls and strikes than "strikes" umpires. Part of this is because the pitcher is 60 feet 6 inches away.

An adult league catcher argued with me while he was at bat about a 3-0 pitch that was in the "gray area" and I of course called it a strike. He started biatchin' about how it was a ball, and I told him "I'm not a ball umpire, I'm a strike umpire...nobody walks but the mailman, Hoss." He didn't like the next pitch I called either. Tough. I'd rather deal with that than to hear that my zone is the size of a shoebox and have my games last 4 hours. I usually averaged 1:25 to 1:45 in decently pitched games. Swingee the batee!

Originally Posted by tip184

It's also easier to disregard a ball call that might have been in the zone than it is to disregard a strike call that may have been outside the zone.

Easier for who, you, or the hundreds of people you're pissing off?

[Aging_Arbiter]

I'm sorry..........did I pick a bad day to join this forum??

[RPatrino]

Aging, it doesn't get any better, and sometimes its WORSE. Welcome aboard. This is a pretty friendly thread.

[tballump]

Originally Posted by Aging_Arbiter

I'm sorry..........did I pick a bad day to join this forum??

No, great to have you. But, if you cannot stand getting your chops busted every once and a while, this forum may not be to your liking. Sometimes you might just have to agree to disagree. If you would like, you can just lurk and learn to your hearts content.

[Umpmazza]

I agree with Steve here.... i know my zone is not small... Knees to just below the letters on the shirt or right about the elbows.. i will call a ball that is right on the edge of the plate hell maybe even just off as well... so my zone is a little bit bigger...but I rarely hear arguing..if your consistent they wont complain... But yes Adult games that are 9 inning take a while.

[tip184]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

An adult league catcher argued with me while he was at bat about a 3-0 pitch that was in the "gray area" and I of course called it a strike. He started biatchin' about how it was a ball, and I told him "I'm not a ball umpire, I'm a strike umpire...nobody walks but the mailman, Hoss." He didn't like the next pitch I called either. Tough. I'd rather deal with that than to hear that my zone is the size of a shoebox and have my games last 4 hours. I usually averaged 1:25 to 1:45 in decently pitched games. Swingee the batee!



Easier for who, you, or the hundreds of people you're pissing off?

I never said I was a "ball" umpire. I said that ball umpires tend to take less heat over balls and strikes than "strikes" umpires do.

1:25 to 1:45 for how many innings? That seems really fast (7 innings normally takes 2 hours for me), but maybe these were some good adult leagues.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by tip184

1:25 to 1:45 for how many innings? That seems really fast (7 innings normally takes 2 hours for me), but maybe these were some good adult leagues.

Heh, heh............ maybe you need to call more strikes!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by tip184

I never said I was a "ball" umpire. I said that ball umpires tend to take less heat over balls and strikes than "strikes" umpires do.

1:25 to 1:45 for how many innings? That seems really fast (7 innings normally takes 2 hours for me), but maybe these were some good adult leagues.

I'm sorry...I didn't mean to mislead you. I was combining an anecdote from an adult league game and giving you my HS varsity game average. Oh God, I can't get an adult game (they are 9 innings here) done in less than 2:15. And these ARE the good adult leagues, complete with former MLB players that live here. Most of the other adult leagues here, you're looking at 3 hours or more, no matter if you call every pitch a strike. Terrible ball in many NABA and MSBL leagues. There are a few elite ones though, and they were always a pleasure to work.

[RPatrino]

Well, the way I see it, if you don't call strikes, you deserve yourself. Nobody, and I mean nobody likes 4 hour games, with walk after walk. If thats your thing, good luck to you. I pity the players, your partners and the fans. I also suspect that you will not get much past the JV level.