Asking BU on a Check Swing

[Dave Reed]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Dave that's what the manual says but in all my years of watching PRO ball I have yet to see a BU ON HIS OWN make a call of strike on the play presented.

Unless you are very different than most people (even umpires) you wouldn't be looking at BU on a checked swing uncaught third strike. That's not where the action or the ball is. And if you are dependent on TV to show you a volunteer call by BU, you'll never see it.

Eddings? You mean with A. J. Piersynski getting to first? Eddings called a strike immediately, behind the plate. That's more than a little different. Why do you think the BU should have piped up?

I don't know how long this ruling has been in the book, but it's not very many years. I expect recent rulings to be more strictly followed than old ones, so I expect that BU usually does, in practice, make the call.

[njdevs00cup]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If BU is going to "call it later" then he's better off "calling it now."

Bob,

I can see this being an issue in the two man system. The phrase "appropriate umpire" in the MLB rules would indicate the U3 would make the call on a check swing w/ a left handed batter. One of the many imperfections of the two man system.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Bob,

I can see this being an issue in the two man system. The phrase "appropriate umpire" in the MLB rules would indicate the U3 would make the call on a check swing w/ a left handed batter. One of the many imperfections of the two man system.

I disagree. Any BU can see, and opine, on a check swing. If there's more than one BU, then the crew needs to "choose" who to ask (so it doesn't become a "vote."). If there's only one BU, then the choice is easy.

If BU in A would rule on a first pitch check swing by a LH batter, then he should rule on a potential dropped third strike by the same batter. And, if he's going to rule on it if asked, he should rule on it before he's asked to avoid putting either team at a disadvantage.

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Bob,

I can see this being an issue in the two man system. The phrase "appropriate umpire" in the MLB rules would indicate the U3 would make the call on a check swing w/ a left handed batter. One of the many imperfections of the two man system.

Isn't there a set of 3 or 4 man mechanics that has the same umpire take the check swing regardless of the handiness of the batter? I am thinking it is the 3rd base ump, but I am not sure.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Blue37

Isn't there a set of 3 or 4 man mechanics that has the same umpire take the check swing regardless of the handiness of the batter? I am thinking it is the 3rd base ump, but I am not sure.

Not that I'm aware of. With two umpires on the line, all go to the umpire that is on the "open side".

In 3-man, with one umpire on the line and the other in the middle some mechanics go to the "open side" whether that umpire is on the line or in the middle; some go to the umpire "on the line" whether that umpire is on the open side or not.

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Not that I'm aware of. With two umpires on the line, all go to the umpire that is on the "open side".

In 3-man, with one umpire on the line and the other in the middle go to the "open side" whether that umpire is on the line or in the middle; some go to the umpire "on the line" whether that umpire is on the open side or not.

That's what I was trying to remember. Going to the umpire on the line.

Thanks Bob!

[Cub42]

In the Pro Lg I am in, using 3 man crew, we go to the umpire on the line if one of us is inside. I have found you have a much better perspective from the line than at any time when inside

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Cub42

In the Pro Lg I am in, using 3 man crew, we go to the umpire on the line if one of us is inside. I have found you have a much better perspective from the line than at any time when inside

Since that is not the PBUC mechanic, may we assume that the pro league you're "in" is not affiliated with MiLB?

[Cub42]

I am in the Northern Lg

[umpjim]

The PBUC manual I purchased in 2006 (with a 2004 copyright) still had this mechanic. Has it changed?

[Cub42]

It has been being used for at least 2 years that I know of

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

Unless you are very different than most people (even umpires) you wouldn't be looking at BU on a checked swing uncaught third strike. That's not where the action or the ball is. And if you are dependent on TV to show you a volunteer call by BU, you'll never see it.

Eddings? You mean with A. J. Piersynski getting to first? Eddings called a strike immediately, behind the plate. That's more than a little different. Why do you think the BU should have piped up?

I don't know how long this ruling has been in the book, but it's not very many years. I expect recent rulings to be more strictly followed than old ones, so I expect that BU usually does, in practice, make the call.

I was reading through the MLBUM (2007) last night and came across the "Voluntary Strike" provision on strike three. Umps are instructed on an appealable third strike to immediately signal the "yes he went" mechanic w/o even being asked by PU if PU has called "ball" so the B/R knows to run right away

I kind of like that provision/mechanic...even though it contradicts other aspects of the rule interps that state that the players/coaches are responsible for knowing certain rules/scenarios..for example an IFF inadvertently called by umpires in an incorrect situation or an IFF not called in a correct situation.

Are other associations adopting this Voluntary Strike mechanic in other rule sets?

[DG]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Hypothetical: FED rules. No one on, BU in A. Batter checks his swing on a 3 - 2 pitch. PU calls ball four and the ball goes to the backstop. Batter sprints out of the batter's box and the defense wants an appeal. Catcher picks up the ball and throws to first. At what point does the PU ask the BU, right away or at the conclusion of the play?

The reason I ask is because if the PU goes to the BU right away and he has a strike, he is answering the PU and making a call on a throw to 1B. If the PU waits, and the batter continues to sprint to 1B, he can be tagged out if the BU agrees the pitch was a ball and the batter/runner over runs 1B.

If I call ball 4 on a checked swing in this sitch and I immediately go to my partner, "did he go?". Removes all doubt quickly. I have had batters stand there until my partner rules strike and then they take off...

[Rich]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Bob,

I can see this being an issue in the two man system. The phrase "appropriate umpire" in the MLB rules would indicate the U3 would make the call on a check swing w/ a left handed batter. One of the many imperfections of the two man system.

I get no more worked up calling a swing from A with a LH batter than I do a right handed batter. Or in B or C or whatever. It's just another decision to make and that's what we're paid for.

[Tim C]

As I have noted on this (and other umpire sites):

Any umpire that intones that an umpire working "inside" cannot call a checked/unchecked swing either does not understand the rule or does not have enough guts to make the call.

Same goes for the times when, in the two umpire system, that an umpire is not in the "open" side of the hitter.