Charged Conferences-FED

[aschramm]

Situation is as follows. If a defensive coach requests time for a defensive conference, then starts to walk out to the mound or any fair territory, but before crossing the foul line decides he does not need this conference anymore, can this still be charged as a defensive conference? I am reading 3-4-1, and can't exactly find anything that states when a conference truly begins.

Thanks

[yawetag]

Like you stated, I don't see anything that gives a clear ruling on when the conference started. Myself, I would use the foul line as my mark, unless he begins to speak to them from foul territory.

Originally Posted by aschramm

Situation is as follows. If a defensive coach requests time for a defensive conference, then starts to walk out to the mound or any fair territory, but before crossing the foul line decides he does not need this conference anymore, can this still be charged as a defensive conference? I am reading 3-4-1, and can't exactly find anything that states when a conference truly begins.

Thanks

[SanDiegoSteve]

As long as the coach doesn't shout instructions to his players and does not cross the foul line, he can change his mind with no penalty.

The point is not covered in the FED rules or case book, but by official interpretation the umpire may charge a conference when the coach approaches the foul line and shouts instructions to the defense, trying to circumvent the charged conference rule.

[bluezebra]

The defensive coach requests time for a conference with his team. PU grants time, stops play. That's a CHARGED CONFERENCE. It's like requesting time in football or basketball. You can't 'unring the bell'.

Bob

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

The defensive coach requests time for a conference with his team. PU grants time, stops play. That's a CHARGED CONFERENCE. It's like requesting time in football or basketball. You can't 'unring the bell'.

Bob

Oh, so the official interpretation is wrong according to you. I'll make a note of that in my BRD.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

As long as the coach doesn't shout instructions to his players and does not cross the foul line, he can change his mind with no penalty.

The point is not covered in the FED rules or case book, but by official interpretation the umpire may charge a conference when the coach approaches the foul line and shouts instructions to the defense, trying to circumvent the charged conference rule.

My BRD (2008) has the second part of what you say: the umpire MAY charge a conference if he judges that the coach is conferring with his players, no matter where to coach is on the field (OFF INTERP, §148 Conferences).

The first part of what you say does not logically follow from the second part, nor do I see it in the BRD. Specifically, nothing permits the coach to "change his mind" after having asked for time. If you could point me to the relevant passage, I'd be interested to see it.

In the meantime, I'll enforce this as I was taught: if I call time at the D-coach's request for a conference, then he's charged with a conference whether or not he uses it.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mbyron

My BRD (2008) has the second part of what you say: the umpire MAY charge a conference if he judges that the coach is conferring with his players, no matter where to coach is on the field (OFF INTERP, §148 Conferences).

The first part of what you say does not logically follow from the second part, nor do I see it in the BRD. Specifically, nothing permits the coach to "change his mind" after having asked for time. If you could point me to the relevant passage, I'd be interested to see it.

In the meantime, I'll enforce this as I was taught: if I call time at the D-coach's request for a conference, then he's charged with a conference whether or not he uses it.

This is what constitutes a conference by rule:

A charged conference is a meeting which involves the coach or his non-playing representative and a player or players of the team (2-10-1).

And, the wording of the interpretation in my outdated copy of the BRD (2005) leads me to believe that as long as the coach does not confer with his players, that he would not be charged with a conference if he changes his mind.

I sure wouldn't charge a conference without an actual conversation taking place. They only get 3 for a 7 inning game to start with, and I'm not going to rob the coach of one of these valuable commodities if he doesn't talk to anyone.

If the coach confers with a player in foul territory, it is a charged conference and the conference ends when the coach initially starts to return to the dugout (3-4-3). Following this logic, the conference cannot begin until he actually starts conferring with a player.

If the conversation took place in fair territory, the conference is concluded when the coach crosses the foul line (3-4-3). He can, before crossing the foul line, turn around and return to the mound without being charged with another conference. Following this logic, the conference cannot begin until the coach crosses the foul line.

If I have a coach request time and then changes his mind before actually making a trip, I am certainly not going to be a hard-a$$ jerk and charge a conference for no good reason, other than to be a prick. It most certainly is not a trip in OBR if the coach changes his mind, and I can't see any reason to be punitive in a FED game.

[aschramm]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

This is what constitutes a conference by rule:

A charged conference is a meeting which involves the coach or his non-playing representative and a player or players of the team (2-10-1).

And, the wording of the interpretation in my outdated copy of the BRD (2005) leads me to believe that as long as the coach does not confer with his players, that he would not be charged with a conference if he changes his mind.

I sure wouldn't charge a conference without an actual conversation taking place. They only get 3 for a 7 inning game to start with, and I'm not going to rob the coach of one of these valuable commodities if he doesn't talk to anyone.

If the coach confers with a player in foul territory, it is a charged conference and the conference ends when the coach initially starts to return to the dugout (3-4-3). Following this logic, the conference cannot begin until he actually starts conferring with a player.

If the conversation took place in fair territory, the conference is concluded when the coach crosses the foul line (3-4-3). He can, before crossing the foul line, turn around and return to the mound without being charged with another conference. Following this logic, the conference cannot begin until the coach crosses the foul line.

If I have a coach request time and then changes his mind before actually making a trip, I am certainly not going to be a hard-a$$ jerk and charge a conference for no good reason, other than to be a prick. It most certainly is not a trip in OBR if the coach changes his mind, and I can't see any reason to be punitive in a FED game.

The bolded part above is pretty much the conclusion I've came to after thinking about it for a while. Not to get too off-topic, but is this a rule interpretation that could be protested by an opposing coach, for example if Coach A comes out, doesn't cross the line, doesn't confer with players and heads back to dugout? Coach B can argue that once I call time it should be a charged conference. I tell him that since Coach A didn't cross the line or confer with players, I will not charge him with a conference.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by aschramm

The bolded part above is pretty much the conclusion I've came to after thinking about it for a while. Not to get too off-topic, but is this a rule interpretation that could be protested by an opposing coach, for example if Coach A comes out, doesn't cross the line, doesn't confer with players and heads back to dugout? Coach B can argue that once I call time it should be a charged conference. I tell him that since Coach A didn't cross the line or confer with players, I will not charge him with a conference.

I would point out rule 2-10-1, which defines what a charged conference is. It is not a conference by definition without a conversation taking place.

[njdevs00cup]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

As long as the coach doesn't shout instructions to his players and does not cross the foul line, he can change his mind with no penalty.

The point is not covered in the FED rules or case book, but by official interpretation the umpire may charge a conference when the coach approaches the foul line and shouts instructions to the defense, trying to circumvent the charged conference rule.

Steve,

Are you going to apply the same logic for an offensive conference? If the batter requests time, leaves the batter's box and changes his mind, would that constitute a charged offensive conference?

[David B]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Steve,

Are you going to apply the same logic for an offensive conference? If the batter requests time, leaves the batter's box and changes his mind, would that constitute a charged offensive conference?

that's another tough one not specifically covered, but as they say "I know a conference when I see one"

It really all comes down to my judgement (and that goes for offensive or defensive)

We have guidelines which help, but ...

thanks
David

[SAump]

Originally Posted by David B

that's another tough one not specifically covered, but as they say "I know a conference when I see one"

It really all comes down to my judgement (and that goes for offensive or defensive)

We have guidelines which help, but ...

thanks
David

You'll know a conference when you see one. You'll be reaching for your paperwork to record it. If you record it on the lineup card, then its a conference.

[DG]

Having my own opinion after reading the first post, and after reviewing all the posts thereafter I still have the opinion that a defensive conference, or offensive for that matter, has occured when coach actually confers. Calling time and changing mind is a brain fart, not a conference.

Thinking back I can never recall this happening, but I can count many occassions where coaches have conferences at the foul line and somehow thinks the foul line makes them immune to counting a conference.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Steve,

Are you going to apply the same logic for an offensive conference? If the batter requests time, leaves the batter's box and changes his mind, would that constitute a charged offensive conference?

1) Yes

2) No

[mbyron]

If the point is that, by rule, a coach, who changes his mind after interrupting the game and coming out on the field, is not to be charged with a conference, then I disagree. An earlier post suggested that this is an official interpretation, but nothing so far in this thread substantiates this point.

The point of limiting defensive conferences is to limit interruptions to the game. If he's asked me to stop the game, then I'm within the letter and spirit of the rule to charge him with a conference, no matter how many words he has with his defense.

On the other hand, if the point is that it's within my discretion to choose not to charge a conference, given that the coach does not in fact confer with his players, then I'd agree with that.