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Old Fri Nov 07, 2008, 07:12pm
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"Clearly" beat the throw?

Just need a little GPS here...
Was at the 3 man camp couple weeks ago in AZ. Paronto was there going over rules, new, etc..
At one point he was talking about the close play at first and said, paraphrasing..."BR must CLEARLY beat the throw"...seeming to indicate thats whats in the book. He strongly emphasized the "clearly"...
So, was having a discussion with a fellow umpire about this, and I tried finding it in the college rule book. Couldnt find it. Is it in there? OBR? Does it say "clearly" in the book? Or was Jim just speaking in general terms?


Out on the field, he also added to what Ive/weve been taught on taking those close plays. He said in addition to what we are already doing, glove/foot, also try to focus on the lead leg at the base......"if the leg is straight when it hits the base, and you hear the glove, its an out. If the leg is bent when you hear the glove, its safe.."
I tried it the past weekend...I liked it. Just seemed to give me one more piece of information to base my call.
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Old Fri Nov 07, 2008, 07:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckfan1 View Post
Just need a little GPS here...
Was at the 3 man camp couple weeks ago in AZ. Paronto was there going over rules, new, etc..
At one point he was talking about the close play at first and said, paraphrasing..."BR must CLEARLY beat the throw"...seeming to indicate thats whats in the book. He strongly emphasized the "clearly"...
So, was having a discussion with a fellow umpire about this, and I tried finding it in the college rule book. Couldnt find it. Is it in there? OBR? Does it say "clearly" in the book? Or was Jim just speaking in general terms?
Seems obvious to me. He has to beat the throw in order to be safe...
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Old Fri Nov 07, 2008, 08:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckfan1 View Post
Just need a little GPS here...
Was at the 3 man camp couple weeks ago in AZ. Paronto was there going over rules, new, etc..
At one point he was talking about the close play at first and said, paraphrasing..."BR must CLEARLY beat the throw"...seeming to indicate thats whats in the book. He strongly emphasized the "clearly"...
So, was having a discussion with a fellow umpire about this, and I tried finding it in the college rule book. Couldnt find it. Is it in there? OBR? Does it say "clearly" in the book? Or was Jim just speaking in general terms?.
My take: He was trying to debunk the myth that "the tie goes to the runner."
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Old Fri Nov 07, 2008, 09:05pm
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
My take: He was trying to debunk the myth that "the tie goes to the runner."

I dont think it was that...the students attending this camp were not just guys off the boat , new to the field. These were all officials who have been around, do college baseball, some at D1 level.
The instruction was advanced due to the caliber of instructors as well as the students. All there were well beyond that myth.
The camp/clinic was to advance our education on 3-man.

Parontos comment was one small aspect of the field demonstration he was giving. When he emphasized the "clearly" I took it as thats straight out of the book. I looked for it but couldnt find it. And was just asking if anyone could give me latitude/longitude of where that passage is in the book..thanks.
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Old Sat Nov 08, 2008, 12:25am
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it's likely along the lines of the collegiate "strike" zone. the assignors/evaluators want a huge zone. they want strikes, which lead to outs, which leads to game over. close play at first? he wasn't CLEARLY safe? nevermind that closeness, just go ahead and bang him out. it'll get you off the field faster. super philosophy.
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Old Sat Nov 08, 2008, 12:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckfan1 View Post
Just need a little GPS here...
Couldnt find it. Is it in there? OBR? Does it say "clearly" in the book?
OBR has conflicting statements about the "tie" situation anyway. In 605(j) he or first base is tagged "before" he touches first base. A "tie" would not constitute "before", and therefor the runner would be safe in a "tie" situation. In 708(e) he fails to reach the base "before" a fielder tags him or the base. Once again a "tie" would not be "before" and therefor the runner would be out in a "tie" situation. The word "clearly" in not in OBR. The term used is "before".

Personally, I like to watch 708(e) applied.

Maybe D1 on down should look into wood bats again to help speed up slow and high scoring games rather than making "everyone" a potential Hank Aaron or Babe Ruth.
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Old Sat Nov 08, 2008, 12:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckfan1 View Post
I dont think it was that...the students attending this camp were not just guys off the boat , new to the field. These were all officials who have been around, do college baseball, some at D1 level.
The instruction was advanced due to the caliber of instructors as well as the students. All there were well beyond that myth.
The camp/clinic was to advance our education on 3-man.

Parontos comment was one small aspect of the field demonstration he was giving. When he emphasized the "clearly" I took it as thats straight out of the book. I looked for it but couldnt find it. And was just asking if anyone could give me latitude/longitude of where that passage is in the book..thanks.
I agree with Bob. There are experienced officials who have a hard time banging the close one at first. Sounds like a hard sell approach to the 'tie goes to the runner".

thanks
David
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Old Sat Nov 08, 2008, 12:24pm
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There is a simple reason why some don't like to 'bang' the close outs at first. It's easier, and it eliminates some of the moans and groans on the close ones.

I was doing a LL Senior Divisional game at 1b, and there were spectators right along the 1b line, who had a REAL good view of plays at 1b. I called several bang-bang plays there, all outs, and after every play they fans would groan and moan. Then they would quietly say..." good call, blue"...
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Old Sat Nov 08, 2008, 01:07pm
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Originally Posted by RPatrino View Post
There is a simple reason why some don't like to 'bang' the close outs at first. It's easier, and it eliminates some of the moans and groans on the close ones.

I was doing a LL Senior Divisional game at 1b, and there were spectators right along the 1b line, who had a REAL good view of plays at 1b. I called several bang-bang plays there, all outs, and after every play they fans would groan and moan. Then they would quietly say..." good call, blue"...
Bob....I was there..trust me they weren't talking about you...

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Old Mon Nov 10, 2008, 09:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck View Post
it's likely along the lines of the collegiate "strike" zone. the assignors/evaluators want a huge zone. they want strikes, which lead to outs, which leads to game over. close play at first? he wasn't CLEARLY safe? nevermind that closeness, just go ahead and bang him out. it'll get you off the field faster. super philosophy.
This was my take too after reading the OP. Get the outs where you can.
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