Sox/Angels tag at third in 9th

[BretMan]

Rich, that has always been my understanding.

Ball comes out during tag = no control of ball/not securely held.

Ball comes out after tag = valid tag, as long as ball was secure during the tagging action itself.

[UmpJM]

Oddly enough, I had just posted the different Evans and Roder criteria for judging the validity of a tag on a thread on the umpire.org site just before this play happened last night.

To me, the Evans interp always made more sense and was more consistent with the actual text of the rules, and I thought Welke's call was correct.

I believe Rich Ives hits the key distinction in his post above - the tag itself did not result in Varitek (involuntarily) losing control of the ball. His lack of body control did.

But, since "voluntary release" is not a criteria for establishing the validity of a tag (unless you subscribe to Roder's hypothesis, of course), and Varitek clearly had "secure possession" of the ball before, during, and immediately after the tag, it's a good tag.

JM

[johnnyg08]

The video...I don't remmeber if anybody posted the link on here or not.

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/media/v...00013&c_id=bos

[Kevin Finnerty]

I thought it was a good call, except for him not staying with the play, and not asking for a conference. He got the actual play right, but did it the wrong way.

[johnnyg08]

If he got it right, knew he got it right, why would he conference?

I agree that he should've stayed w/ the play...but the conference is not always necessary...I wish more people agreed w/ me on that...maybe I'm the one who's wrong on that?

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

If he got it right, knew he got it right, why would he conference?

I agree that he should've stayed w/ the play...but the conference is not always necessary...I wish more people agreed w/ me on that...maybe I'm the one who's wrong on that?

Just because the ball came loose and he never even knew it. He should have sucked it up and made sure he got it right.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I thought it was a good call, except for him not staying with the play, and not asking for a conference. He got the actual play right, but did it the wrong way.

Whoa!

If you subscribe to the out call, then what he did was perfect. He saw the tag with a controlled ball, and called the out. No need to follow the ball, nor any need to get help. It was all right in front of him. You wouldn't get help on this one, unless it was protested.

[JR12]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Whoa!

If you subscribe to the out call, then what he did was perfect. He saw the tag with a controlled ball, and called the out. No need to follow the ball, nor any need to get help. It was all right in front of him. You wouldn't get help on this one, unless it was protested.

Good point!

[David B]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Rich, that has always been my understanding.

Ball comes out during tag = no control of ball/not securely held.

Ball comes out after tag = valid tag, as long as ball was secure during the tagging action itself.

That does make sense and seems to be what MLB is saying publicly at least.

Was watching the play over again on DVR and then listening to Showalter explain the play - basically he is right, they didn't execute.

And then trying a squeeze with a LHB is never a good idea.

Thanks
David