Do the participants really care how we are dressed

[Tim C]

"You would never advance very high in any kind of officials association, and would probably never amount to any kind of decent official, and frankly, would have an opinion that no decent official would really care about."

Rei and I are in the same high school association. I am an umpire observer for his college group. I post this so you all can recognize that even two umpires in the same group can see things through different colored glasses.

The Portland Baseball Umpires Association is made up of around 175 people from varied backgrounds.

We have umpires of all shapes, sizes, nationalities, and ages.

I couldn't disagree more with Rei on this specific subject. The Original post asked do "participants" care how umpires look. My answer to that is a firm "no."

From my experience the PBUA still sends guys to upper level (and playoff) games that dress horribly.

All the regulars know that I am a grear junky. I have both plate and base pants in heather and charcoal and I carry 47 different shirts to every game. I STILL CANNOT MATCH EVERY OTHER PBUA MEMBER WHEN IT COMES TO SHADE OF PANT OR SHIRT OR PIPING PATTERN ON SLEEVES.

Participants want a good solid job of umpiring. While having never worked a small diamond game I have heard gasps and "gee, we get real umpires today!" when I have been near a game of young players. That isn't how I viewed this original post.

Rei and I lament annually about the caps our umpires wear. We have ba$terized that selection by using several different suppliers over the past five years. As umpires that work non-professional games how much investment (money) can we expect our members to pony-up?

Wear a clean uniform and wipe dirt and dust from your shoes before each game. That will "impress" those that count and leave the "uniform police" to worrying about each other.

And Rei, just because Dave Reed doesn't agree with you does not mean he should burn in he11 . . . he has a right to an opinion.

Regards,

[bigda65]

Post this question on a coaches board, or players board and I would bet that 99.9% of them could care less about what the umpires wore.

They want a consistent strike zone, hustle into positions, confident calls etc. etc.etc.

And way down at the bottom of the list "appearance".

As we all can see, post this on an umpires forum, better than 80% think you cant go anywhere without dressing the part.

I personally do not dress the part, for a couple of reasons:
The main one, is that I am confident enough that my umpiring abilities will overshadow my dressing abilities.
I do not wish to advance at this time. I do mostly volunteer games anyway. I have done some V and JV high school games, where there is pay, but I can assure you, in my area, they could care less about how you dress.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by bigda65

And way down at the bottom of the list "appearance".

Perhaps it's a local thing.

But trust me, in SoCal, if you show up for a game not looking sharp, coaches take note. And you'll never hear it directly. They won't say "You goof, you've got your hat on backwards, that's way you missed that call!". They'll just say "Aw S@#$" to themselves as you walk on the field.


When I'm in the dugout, I'll size up the umpire when he hits the gate. Polished shoes, black ball bags, no beanie, etc. means he might have a clue. If a guy rolls out with pants that are wrinkled, he's saying he doesn't care about the GAME. No just himself, that's obvious, but the GAME.

They say that looking the part will get you through the first two innings. Maybe it's a personal thing, but I just like looking good, no matter what I'm doing. If you don't care about your apperance, perhaps you've chosen the wrong hobby. Remeber, there's always fishing.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Perhaps it's a local thing.

But trust me, in SoCal, if you show up for a game not looking sharp, coaches take note. And you'll never hear it directly. They won't say "You goof, you've got your hat on backwards, that's way you missed that call!". They'll just say "Aw S@#$" to themselves as you walk on the field.


When I'm in the dugout, I'll size up the umpire when he hits the gate. Polished shoes, black ball bags, no beanie, etc. means he might have a clue. If a guy rolls out with pants that are wrinkled, he's saying he doesn't care about the GAME. No just himself, that's obvious, but the GAME.

They say that looking the part will get you through the first two innings. Maybe it's a personal thing, but I just like looking good, no matter what I'm doing. If you don't care about your apperance, perhaps you've chosen the wrong hobby. Remeber, there's always fishing.

I agree. Here in SoCal it's all about looks. I've sat in the stands and heard people saying things about a raggedy umpire's appearance, so I know that people are paying attention.

There is this guy in my former association who I had never met and I was assigned to work an adult league game with him. Like me, he was around 40 at the time. I rolled up into the parking lot, and he was finishing up getting dressed. I looked at him and could not believe how wrinkled his pants were, and all purple from being old. His shirt was equally wrinkled and his shoes were dirty and his hat needed an oil change. He wore a totally worn out brown belt.

He did a really good job during the game, which surprised me. He was a darn good umpire, but because of his appearance I had prejudged him. He told me after the game that he didn't know why our assignor kept giving him JV and other lousy assignments. I suggested that he get himself some new pants and to press his shirts (at the time they were Elbeco) and get a shine on his shoes, replace his hat, etc. I told him that perception is reality, and nobody is going to give him a favorable rating because of how he looked.

Well, the moral of the story is that he took my advice to heart. He bought a pair of patent leather plate shoes that another umpire was selling, purchased real umpire pants and new shirts. He got himself some new hats and a new belt. He squared himself away. He started getting good varsity games and then was recruited by the college association to do college ball.

By that time, we had become pretty good friends and ended up working some really good wood bat collegiate summer games together several years down the road.

I know that umpires place more importance on appearance than most coaches or players do. But there are those out there who know what an umpire is supposed to look like, and aren't shy about pointing out ugly when they see it. Not everyone thinks that umpires wear their hats backwards or their shin guards on the outside of the pants.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by kylejt

When I'm in the dugout, I'll size up the umpire when he hits the gate. Polished shoes, black ball bags, no beanie, etc. means he might have a clue. If a guy rolls out with pants that are wrinkled, he's saying he doesn't care about the GAME. No just himself, that's obvious, but the GAME.

OK Kyle, and be honest now, did you think like that before you took up umpiring?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

OK Kyle, and be honest now, did you think like that before you took up umpiring?

The point is that many coaches and players are also umpires and know what an umpire is supposed to look like. Even those who don't umpire still know what crap looks like and don't step in it. Maybe you don't care what the umpires look like but out here if one of the two partners is dressed poorly, the response is that "the umpires looked like sh!t today." I've overheard it on several occasions.

I personally have never just wiped the dust off my shoes to work a baseball game. Even between games I washed and re-polished my shoes. I wouldn't have dreamed of going on the ball field looking anything but sharp, and can't imagine anyone not having the same amount of pride in their appearance. I just don't understand how any umpire could walk on the field looking like they escaped from a homeless shelter.

[Tim C]

At seasons end we had over 170 umpires that had been part of the PBUA (school and summer seasons).

Also you can check either with the President of your College group or the assignor (I think you know him) and confirm that I was indeed a college umpire observer. I have already agreed to do it next season also.

You are correct in the number of games that I actually had a "for pay" evaluation last season.

I have stayed silent in respect to our association(s) when you have made several wild statements on this board. I will no longer offer you that professional respect.

You wrote your words and I only corrrectly quoted them.

Live in your own mess.

Regards,

Originally Posted by Tim C

At seasons end we had over 170 umpires that had been part of the PBUA (school and summer seasons).

Also you can check either with the President of your College group or the assignor (I think you know him) and confirm that I was indeed a college umpire observer. I have already agreed to do it next season also.

You are correct in the number of games that I actually had a "for pay" evaluation last season.

I have stayed silent in respect to our association(s) when you have made several wild statements on this board. I will no longer offer you that professional respect.

You wrote your words and I only corrrectly quoted them.

Live in your own mess.

Regards,

LOL...ok Tim. Remember though, that does work both ways!

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

The point is that many coaches and players are also umpires and know what an umpire is supposed to look like. Even those who don't umpire still know what crap looks like and don't step in it. Maybe you don't care what the umpires look like but out here if one of the two partners is dressed poorly, the response is that "the umpires looked like sh!t today." I've overheard it on several occasions.

I personally have never just wiped the dust off my shoes to work a baseball game. Even between games I washed and re-polished my shoes. I wouldn't have dreamed of going on the ball field looking anything but sharp, and can't imagine anyone not having the same amount of pride in their appearance. I just don't understand how any umpire could walk on the field looking like they escaped from a homeless shelter.

Suppose you go to watch your favorite team play - and they play poorly. As you leave you just might say "Boy, they sure looked like crap today".

Are you referring to their performance or their attire? Got a picture of Ben says you're talking about their performance.

Why do you think a similar comment about the officials would be about their attire?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Suppose you go to watch your favorite team play - and they play poorly. As you leave you just might say "Boy, they sure looked like crap today".

Are you referring to their performance or their attire? Got a picture of Ben says you're talking about their performance.

Why do you think a similar comment about the officials would be about their attire?

You would lose. I'm talking about appearance, their dress, etc. They have gone on to elaborate about specific things such as "looked like he slept in his uniform" and other such comments.

I am also speaking generally that if one partner looks really sharp, and the other partner looks like a bum, the only thing the coaches will usually remember is that "they looked bad," not "he looked bad." The poorly dressed official reflects negatively in the perception of the entire crew.

Now, yes I have been lumped in with a partner who blew several easy, obvious calls on the bases. I ended up being scratched from that teams playoff games because the JV coach had the varsity squad that day, and couldn't tell the varsity coach which of the two umpires sucked that day, so he scratched us both.

Typical coach mentality, present company excluded.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

OK Kyle, and be honest now, did you think like that before you took up umpiring?

Honestly, I started umpiring about the same time I started managing. There were a pair of hobo's umpire a LL game I was coaching, and instead of complaining out loud I decided I could do a better job than they could. (Kind of a put up, or shut up thing).

[Ump153]

Patris, quare me repulisti?

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Honestly, I started umpiring about the same time I started managing. There were a pair of hobo's umpire a LL game I was coaching, and instead of complaining out loud I decided I could do a better job than they could. (Kind of a put up, or shut up thing).

I haven't posted before this... just read a lot of what you guys say, but this one thing rings very true with me. I literally got into umpiring as soon as I could after seeing my son through high school as a coach. The umpiring was so poor and downright disrespectful to the game that I had to get into it just to make a contribution. And just by knowing the game very well and also being the best-dressed umpire I could I soared through the ranks fairly quickly. And most of the time I was advancing, my partners with the sweaty adjustable uncreased mesh caps, wrinkled and faded combo slacks, dusty shoes, and shiny nylon shirts ...or some combination of all of those things were always wondering aloud why they aren't getting evaluated or assigned to better games.

The participants that are just happy to have umpires show up don't care if they are adhering to our true standard so their audience doesn't care. But first tier varsity level H.S. and J.C. level participants and audience members expect us to look the part ... all shiny and creased. Youth ball which I still coach during the fall is definitely not seasoned enough audience wise to care or know better. So I guess they start caring somewhere between JV and varsity in high school.

[kylejt]

I don't care what the players, coaches or fans think about how I dress. I'm the only one that counts, and I choose to look professional (actually, better than MLB guys) whenever I step on the field. It's a personal thing.

Originally Posted by Tim C

Rei and I are in the same high school association. I am an umpire observer for his college group. I post this so you all can recognize that even two umpires in the same group can see things through different colored glasses.

The Portland Baseball Umpires Association is made up of around 175 people from varied backgrounds.

We have umpires of all shapes, sizes, nationalities, and ages.

I couldn't disagree more with Rei on this specific subject. The Original post asked do "participants" care how umpires look. My answer to that is a firm "no."

From my experience the PBUA still sends guys to upper level (and playoff) games that dress horribly.

All the regulars know that I am a grear junky. I have both plate and base pants in heather and charcoal and I carry 47 different shirts to every game. I STILL CANNOT MATCH EVERY OTHER PBUA MEMBER WHEN IT COMES TO SHADE OF PANT OR SHIRT OR PIPING PATTERN ON SLEEVES.

Participants want a good solid job of umpiring. While having never worked a small diamond game I have heard gasps and "gee, we get real umpires today!" when I have been near a game of young players. That isn't how I viewed this original post.

Rei and I lament annually about the caps our umpires wear. We have ba$terized that selection by using several different suppliers over the past five years. As umpires that work non-professional games how much investment (money) can we expect our members to pony-up?

Wear a clean uniform and wipe dirt and dust from your shoes before each game. That will "impress" those that count and leave the "uniform police" to worrying about each other.

And Rei, just because Dave Reed doesn't agree with you does not mean he should burn in he11 . . . he has a right to an opinion.

Regards,

Tim, while I appreciate your input, I don't like having words being put in my mouth, or having things I have written intoned to be something other than they are.

I don't recall you "observing" ANY NCUA games this last season.

Also, the PBUA roster is currently at 159, and this includes the commissioner who works maybe 1 or 2 games a year, and a few other guys that maybe work 1 game a week during high school to "help out". I would put our number at about 150 tops! I would estimate that less than 100 of them do more than 40 games a year!