What is going on with ML baseball umpires

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Your citation above contradicts what you had said earlier, which doesn't help your case. I have always looked at a batter-runner's intent, which is why I've never called him out when he took a step toward second as some kind of impulsive reaction when it was clear he had no intent to go.

If you are ruling intent, then that is clearly a judgment call. And this is clearly what Upton did in my opinion. Just because you disagree does not make the call incorrect. The umpire saw the same thing I have seen many times before.

The bottom line is we are giving opinions that mean little or nothing. Even if he did not call Upton out, someone would have made a claim that he should have. At the end of the day it really means nothing. And I do not give a damn that the umpire was in the MLB. I do not see MLB umpires as the best of the best. They are people that took a route and accomplished that route. It sounds to me like you are more concerned at who these people are than some of us here that agree with this call. I also know some high profile officials and you can always find someone that disagrees with a call. That is not hard to do.

Peace

[UMP25]

With rare exception, MLB umpires are, indeed, the best of the best. Like every profession in life, some may have gotten there due to politics, but MLB umpires are the top umpires in the world. Sure, there are some top notch amateur guys at various levels, but as I said, MLB guys are the cream of the crop when it comes to umpiring.

They're just not perfect or immune to making mistakes. Some here on this board have never criticized a call and have instead rushed to defend everything MLB umpires do.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by UMP25

With rare exception, MLB umpires are, indeed, the best of the best. Like every profession in life, some may have gotten there due to politics, but MLB umpires are the top umpires in the world. Sure, there are some top notch amateur guys at various levels, but as I said, MLB guys are the cream of the crop when it comes to umpiring.

I disagree with that because of how the process to assign MLB Umpires in the first place. Major League Baseball hardly ever gets rid of umpires based on performance like other leagues and the process to get to that level is so narrow minded, that you cannot tell me the people that make it are by far the best umpires. And when some of the current umpires are there because someone was able to pick their successor, how many good umpires were passed over and later got out?

Originally Posted by UMP25

They're just not perfect or immune to making mistakes. Some here on this board have never criticized a call and have instead rushed to defend everything MLB umpires do.

That may be true of some here, but I am not one of them. I have a philosophical problem with going out publicly and criticizing someone that makes a mistake I have made or could make very easily. But I have seen many mistakes by MLB Umpires that I wonder why they are never replaced. I have seen non-pros get fired or suspended from leagues for a lot worse than I have seen MLB Umpires ever get in any trouble. They can make big time mistakes and they are in the playoffs.

Peace

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I disagree with that because of how the process to assign MLB Umpires in the first place. Major League Baseball hardly ever gets rid of umpires based on performance like other leagues and the process to get to that level is so narrow minded, that you cannot tell me the people that make it are by far the best umpires. And when some of the current umpires are there because someone was able to pick their successor, how many good umpires were passed over and later got out?

Which is why I said with rare exception. Every profession has its employees who are less than excellent, MLB umpiring included. However, Major League Baseball umpires are the best umpires there are. I also happen to believe that they're the best of the professional sports officials.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Which is why I said with rare exception. Every profession has its employees who are less than excellent, MLB umpiring included. However, Major League Baseball umpires are the best umpires there are.

IMO, you cannot compare "other' professions with that of MLB

RE: When you attend law school or medical school while you might not be the top of your profession you can make a decent living.

In umpiring, until one makes it to the "show" for the most part you make peanuts. If you want to attract the best then you need a system that will attract the best.

There might be some excellent umpires out there but they may have a family etc,. and simply cannot afford a trip to the minors given the current pay structure.

Heck MLB has a "stink" whenever the minor league umpires do want a raise in pay or better living arrangements etc. as evidenced by the past strike.

What you have is a system that attracts those that can afford to work for peanuts not necessarily the best candidates available but those that are available.

Pete Booth

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Which is why I said with rare exception. Every profession has its employees who are less than excellent, MLB umpiring included. However, Major League Baseball umpires are the best umpires there are. I also happen to believe that they're the best of the professional sports officials.

They are not the best in professional sports, by far. But if you want to drink the Kool-Aid go right ahead. As far as I am concerned you cannot be overweight and have problems getting from point A to point B then be the best in sports. And most of their calls are one thing or the other. When it gets complicated like making a real judgment call, they cannot even get that right. I respect the jobs that most of these guys do. They are working games most of us would dream to have, but to say they are the best is a stretch. And when you have guys that were hand picked only because their dad was an umpire, does not make you the best.

Peace

[UMP25]

Apparently you have difficulty discerning what the word "exception" means. I never said every single MLB Umpire is the absolute best (and I was thinking of Hunter when I first wrote that). Among the major professional sports, MLB Umpires are the best.

In the NFL I see far more blown calls than I do in baseball, and several guys are lard butts there, too. In hockey, they're darned good, perhaps giving MLB Umpires a run for their money. And the NBA? That's not even debatable. The officials there and the league--mostly the latter--are a joke. NBA Referees are, sadly, a shell of what they used to be quality-wise.

If one looks at all the calls made by officials in their respective games, I'd be willing to bet MLB Umpires come out on top in terms of their correctness.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Apparently you have difficulty discerning what the word "exception" means. I never said every single MLB Umpire is the absolute best (and I was thinking of Hunter when I first wrote that). Among the major professional sports, MLB Umpires are the best.

Nice name drop.

Originally Posted by UMP25

In the NFL I see far more blown calls than I do in baseball, and several guys are lard butts there, too. In hockey, they're darned good, perhaps giving MLB Umpires a run for their money. And the NBA? That's not even debatable. The officials there and the league--mostly the latter--are a joke. NBA Referees are, sadly, a shell of what they used to be quality-wise.

And this is what JRut is talking about: Football, basketball, and hockey are all sports in which the players and their opponents are moving quickly around the playing surface and usually making contact with each other. Officials in these sports have the difficult job of deciding what is legal and illegal contact, among other decisions. These sports require a different kind of judgment than just ball/strike, out/safe, and fair/foul.

And who in the NFL is a lard butt? They all look in pretty good shape to me.

Originally Posted by UMP25

If one looks at all the calls made by officials in their respective games, I'd be willing to bet MLB Umpires come out on top in terms of their correctness.

Maybe, but it's hard to classify some calls in those other sports as simply "correct" or "incorrect."

[TussAgee11]

Apples to oranges.

Very rarely do we work in the "gray area"- either the ball got to the glove first or the foot got to the bag first.

In most other sports, there is that "gray area" - how much of a hold constitutes holding in football? How much body bump on a clean block in basketball is too much? In hockey, did that trip really cause the skater to fall, or was it a dive?

In JRut's opinion, it seems like MLB umpires can't be the best because of the sport they officiate - an overwhelming percentage of our calls are made when we are stationary, when we have plenty of time and space to get into position, and are "black and white" in nature.

There are some areas in which officiating different sports has similarities - game management, rules knowledge, confidence.

There are other areas where comparing is futile, and just wastes bandwidth

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Apparently you have difficulty discerning what the word "exception" means. I never said every single MLB Umpire is the absolute best (and I was thinking of Hunter when I first wrote that). Among the major professional sports, MLB Umpires are the best.

In the NFL I see far more blown calls than I do in baseball, and several guys are lard butts there, too. In hockey, they're darned good, perhaps giving MLB Umpires a run for their money. And the NBA? That's not even debatable. The officials there and the league--mostly the latter--are a joke. NBA Referees are, sadly, a shell of what they used to be quality-wise.

I am a football official. It is amazing how many of replay reviews in both college and the NFL that these guys get completely right. And in football there are no "phantom tags" or "unwritten rules" that have to be officiated. And NBA Officials are a lot better than any MLB Umpire. For one all NBA Officials are in shape and they get rid of officials that rate low. They do not keep a guy around or bring guys back if they cannot call the game properly. And as stated, MLB (or any baseball umpire for that matter), mostly has an either/or decision to make on the vast majority of plays. When they have to use judgment surrounding a series of factors, in your opinion they cannot even get those plays right (e.g. Upton play, Pierzynski play).

Originally Posted by UMP25

If one looks at all the calls made by officials in their respective games, I'd be willing to bet MLB Umpires come out on top in terms of their correctness.

Well considering how many games have been decided at the MLB Playoffs based on some very bad calls, I would dispute that. Most of other sports I see where there are there are precieved bad calls, are often based on misunderstanding of the media rather than an actual bad call (e.g. Tuck Rule). These are not plays that the vast majority of the officiating community disagrees with. I see way more umpires disagreeing with big calls in games during the baseball season, then I ever do when people talk about the other sports.

Peace