What is going on with ML baseball umpires

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by Emperor Ump

I may be wrong but I thought he went to East Carolina, like me...

J O E W E S T
CREW CHIEF
MAJOR LEAGUE SERVICE TIME: 26 Years
CAREER: Joined the major league staff in 1978...has worked
the All-Star Game (1987), Division Series (1995, 2002), League
Championship Series (1981, 86, 88, 93, 96, 2003) and World
Series (1993, 97)...previously umpired in the Western Carolinas
League (1974), Florida Instructional League (1974-76),
Carolina League (1975-76), Southern League (1976), American
Association (1976-77) and Puerto Rican League (1977).
PERSONAL: Joseph Harry West...born on October 31, 1952 in
Asheville, NC...currently resides in Weston, FL...married Jean
Jo Mason... designed and patented Wilson Sporting Goods
umpire equipment for Major League Baseball...attended East
Carolina and Elon College...inducted into the South Atlantic
League Hall of Fame in 2002...Quarterback of the Elon College
football team, MVP in his senior year...elected to the Elon
College Sports Hall of Fame...singer/songwriter, Joe has performed
with Merle Haggard, Bobby Mackey, Bonnie Owens,
Mickey Gilley, Box Car Willie, T.G. Sheppard and Charlie McCoy
and the Hee Haw Band at the Grand Ole Opry.



TUSS WINS!

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by BigTex

...attended East
Carolina and Elon College...


TUSS WINS!

i see a tie. if tuss was the runner, then he wins.

[TussAgee11]

We're both right, I mentioned he graduated from Elon, Emp. Ump. said he went he was a Pirate.

Both are true...

[tballump]

Joe West is originally from Asheville, NC--attended East Carolina and graduated from Elon---He was quarterback for 3 years at Elon and led them to the NAIA bowl game in Shreveport, LA in 1973 where they lost to Abilene Christian 42-14. Joe Worked the Western Carolina-Carolina League in 1974-75 with Drew Coble, another Elon College Graduate who was in the American League(Crew Chief) and was fired in 1999 as he was home nursing his wife who had terminal cancer even though he never signed any papers whatsoever. Judge Symonic reinstated Joe West and Drew Coble because they had been unfairly terminated, and Drew Coble decided he had enough and retired while Joe continues to this day. Joe was named Crew Chief upon his return (pretty darn good for a guy who is so terrible and was fired). He worked the 2005 All-Star game, Division series and World Series.

The above is all on the internet in various places, including the trials from 1999-2002 strike and firings although I might be hard pressed to find them now.

[tballump]

Joe was one of the last umpires who did not work a full AA season before being called up to AAA in 1976 (Tim Tschida is one of the others)(Montague and McSherry skipped AA altogether) and also worked his first NL game in 1976. Joe worked AAA and NL in 1977 before signing with NL in 1978.

MLB has plenty of time to scout and evaluate every umpire in AAA for their compentency as a MLB Umpire, so Blake Cullen or whoever was National League President in 1978 was never forced to hire Joe as a NL Umpire.

I'm sure Joe's umpiring reputation and no-nonsense style was known long before he was hired and I'm sure that style fit well with umpiring supervisor Al Barlick (Hall of famer) at the time, along with his outstanding plate and base work on the field. So, when the National League hired Joe, they knew what they were getting and therefor condoned all phases of his umpiring and competency or they would not have hired him, and this is true for all the AAA Umpires that are hired by MLB.

[Lawrence.Dorsey]

I don't think we'll ever know the reason unless we hear it directly from Meals or the crew chief Gary Darling. By rule, he could have been called out for not returning to the base immediately. I'll defer to someone with more rules interpretation experience than me but I have never called anyone out for not returning immediately and have never seen it done.

Some of you that have attended the JEAPU have heard Jim Evans talk about the special rules that apply to first base (running lane, overrun ability) and I think I remember Jim indicating if he had his way there would be changes in regards to these rules ( can't remember the specifics).

Lawrence

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Lawrence.Dorsey

I don't think we'll ever know the reason unless we hear it directly from Meals or the crew chief Gary Darling.
Lawrence

Here ya go.

From the AP:

Crew chief Gary Darling told a pool reporter Upton "made an attempt to run to second," then added: "I've called guys out for less."

[MrUmpire]

I love it.

First someone says: "I don't think we'll ever know the reason unless we hear it directly from Meals or the crew chief Gary Darling."

So a direct quote from Darling is posted.

Then someone says: "This means nothing, what else is Darling going to say,"

This is the equivalent of putting your hands of your ears and singing LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA.....VERY loudly.

[JRutledge]

Personally I do not care if this was a game in the backyard and the umpire was a drunk from the neighborhood. I think it was the right call and it was clear to me. I have made this call several times and Upton stopped going to second when he realized the fielder got the ball cleanly and he would not have a chance. You can disagree, but that is not my concern. And I am sure Meals feels the same way.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Personally I do not care if this was a game in the backyard and the umpire was a drunk from the neighborhood. I think it was the right call and it was clear to me. I have made this call several times and Upton stopped going to second when he realized the fielder got the ball cleanly and he would not have a chance. You can disagree, but that is not my concern. And I am sure Meals feels the same way.

Peace

I agree completely. Absolutely the right call. You can't overrun the base, then just stand there and decide if you should go to second or not. A hesitation after turning towards second is making an attempt. The runner needs to find out what happened with the baseball and make his decision to go for second before he turns that way, or else risk being tagged out.

If you are going to turn towards second base after overrunning the base, you must do an about-face and return immediately. Anything else is construed as an attempt. I agree with Darling, I've called runners out for less.

[UmpTTS43]

My .02. Out as well for an "attempt" for second. Was pretty clear to me after watching the replay for the first time.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

If you are going to turn towards second base after overrunning the base, you must do an about-face and return immediately. Anything else is construed as an attempt.

Says who? I've heard about being technical, but your comments are beyond technical. They're downright incorrect.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Says who? I've heard about being technical, but your comments are beyond technical. They're downright incorrect.

If the runner turns toward second base (and I don't mean just turns to the left and comes back, which of course is perfectly fine) thinking the ball is overthrown and with every intention of going to 2nd, and then decides to come back to 1st base, only after he sees the ball fielded cleanly, then he did not immediately return to the base, as per 7.08 (c).

I don't care if the runner stops to adjust his helmet, or his wrist bands or something and then returns to the base. That's fine. But stopping to see the disposition of the ball after turning towards second? You're okay with that? You are in the minority here.

Who knows, maybe your "friends" are wrong too.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

If the runner turns toward second base (and I don't mean just turns to the left and comes back, which of course is perfectly fine) thinking the ball is overthrown and with every intention of going to 2nd, and then decides to come back to 1st base, only after he sees the ball fielded cleanly, then he did not immediately return to the base, as per 7.08 (c).

That is, of course, your judgment, but a ridiculously technical and extremely overly literal interpretation of the rule, and one that Meals didn't use to make the call. He banged Upton because of the so-called and nonexistent attempt he made toward second.

It's obvious that you think that everything in B&W in the book is to be interpreted literally. That is a dangerous and incorrect approach, especially because there is archaic language in OBR that is not to be taken literally.

I don't care if the runner stops to adjust his helmet, or his wrist bands or something and then returns to the base. That's fine. But stopping to see the disposition of the ball after turning towards second? You're okay with that? You are in the minority here.

Who knows, maybe your "friends" are wrong too.

Batter-runners can stop and see the disposition of the ball without penalty because it depends on what they do. Intent is to be considered when any kind of an "attempt" is made toward second. Too many here are taking the Little League approach to this rule. It's unnecessary.