Legion Baseball Question

[Gmoore]

Thanks!!

[cbfoulds]

Originally Posted by Gmoore

Arlington Heights protested a ruling in their game against Edwardsville in the 7th inning of the first game of the Senior American Legion State Tournament played in Belleville at Whitey Herzog field. A. H.brought in a relief pitcher ; moved their starting pitcher to 1b.

The reliever was going in for the left fielder, with the first baseman going to left. According to Edwardsville's coach, the move was illegal since A.H. did not go directly to the H.P. umpire to inform him of the multiple position changes. Without a major league rule book at hand the three umpires agreed that the A.H move was illegal and removed the starting pitcher (now 1b) from the duration of the game. After A.H. lost the game 8-4 the rule book was consulted from other umpires who had arrived. No evidence could be found that A.H. had done anything wrong with their substitutions ; especially since it didn't involve a "double switch". The protest was upheld by the protest committee. The game will resume from the protested point with E-Ville batting , leading 4-2. Two on; one out.
Anybody out their who can find something in the Major League Rule Case Book on this particular situation?

"Major League Rule Case Book": HUH?!?
We have available all kinds of references, Recognised Authority, and Authorised Interpretations; but "M.L.R.C.B." ain't one of them. The formal "casebook" of MLB is contained in and a part of the Rules.

There is also no rule AT ALL, at ANY level of baseball, that requires that the umpire(s) be informed of POSITION CHANGES - only changes in the batting order. One wonders how umpires this ignorant get hired/ assigned to "important" games. Upholding the protest was a no-brainer: I rejoice that they got it right.

Originally Posted by SAump

1. Award the base most of the time, even if it was a ball. Don't get into a habit of holding batters back on a hit-by-pitch even if the batter made no effort to move out of the way.

Wham! Here we are, back 5 years on this rule.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by SAump

Came up in Astros vs Cubs game yesterday. Cubs won 11-4. Lou P stepped across the foul line on his way to the mound. Lou was near the mound when he turned to the HP umpire (perhaps Rappapanno?) to request a DS. The Astros manager stepped up to the foul line to oppose the idea. Lou P did not go straight to the umpire. The umpires met and UIC (U1) decided to allow the DS.

I was watching, and Piniella did not violate any rule, though the Astros manager was smart to question the move. Piniella went to the mound, asked his pitcher if he was done for the day, got a confirmation, then immediately turned to the PU (Marty Foster, BTW) and made the double switch. All the rule requires is that the umpire be informed of the batting order change before the player takes his position. Piniella did not make the call to the bullpen until he had reported the change to Foster. No rule violated.

Plus, it was only the first trip of the inning, so he did not have to remove the pitcher. The manager has to go to the umpire before making the change, not before he talks to his pitcher. If it had been the 2nd trip, Piniella would have gone straight to the umpire first.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by cbfoulds

There is also no rule AT ALL, at ANY level of baseball, that requires that the umpire(s) be informed of POSITION CHANGES - only changes in the batting order.

Thank you! There are some scorekeepers I have run across who will disagree . No sooner do I say who the sub is batting for than they ask, "where is he playing?" Drives me nuts.

Originally Posted by SethPDX

Thank you! There are some scorekeepers I have run across who will disagree . No sooner do I say who the sub is batting for than they ask, "where is he playing?" Drives me nuts.

Don't answer.

I usually just do the "wave and point into the field" thing for the sub.

[UmpJM]

Hmmm....

Just as a "point of fact", here is what the MLBUM has to say on the subject (of GMoore's "sub question" and ensuing discussion):

When a manager makes two or more substitutions at the same time the manager must, at the same moment, advise the plate umpire of the names of the substitutes, their defensive positions, and in what place each will hit in the batting order. The manager cannot give notice of one of the substitutions, leave the umpire, come back to the plate umpire, and locate the other player in the lineup. In case the manager fails or refuses to make a decision, the plate umpire is authorized to decide the necessary batting order changes, and the umpire's decision is final. Just as soon as the substitutions are legal, announcements should be made over the public address system. (The PA. announcer should not make announcement of any substitution until so advised by the plate umpire.)

...

If a manager wishes to change pitchers along with one or more other defensive players (intending to interchange the batting order), the manager must inform the umpire before calling for the new pitcher. Motioning to the bullpen is to be considered an official substitution for the new pitcher.

There is no requirement that the manager or coach announce to the umpire a double-switch before crossing the foul line. However, the manager or coach must do so before signaling for a new pitcher, as his signal to the bullpen constitutes a substitution for the pitcher.

It is not permissible for the manager to go to the mound, call for a new pitcher, and then inform the umpire of multiple substitutions with the intention of interchanging the batting order. The plate umpire must be informed of the multiple substitutions before the manager calls for a new
pitcher (if the manager wishes to interchange the batting order).

So, as to GMoore's "sub question", I would go with what Rich Ives said. And, in regard to the DS in the Cubs game the other night, what SDSteve said.

In regard to the MLBUM mandate that the DM provide the umpire with the "defensive positions" of the entering players as well as their repsective positons in the batting lineup, I believe this is in place simply to unambiguously clarify whether the pitcher is being replaced, and , if so, by whom. To me, this requirement is implicit in the rules, because the pitcher (nor the catcher, for that matter) may NOT position himself anywhere he pleases prior to the ball being put in play. Plus, it's just kinda' practical, provides an opportunity to demonstrate you know what you're doing (if you do...), and helps preclude 3rd world situations.

I think the "sub question" would have been fun! But, then I know the "rule".

JM