NFHS and MLB/OBR balk rule and the hidden ball play.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Three weeks ago, I was the PU in a USSSA (MLB/OBR Rules) boys' 11U travel league game. With a R1 on second base, the DHC requested timeout for a defensive conference, which I granted. After the defensive conference was over F1 took a position on the mound behind the pitcher's plate (PP) but did not engage the PP. F6 and F4 were jumping around second base but R1 remained in contact with second base. By the look on F1 face, I could tell that he did not want to engage the PP. Since F1 was not in contact with the PP I could not make the ball live. Finally, the OHC yelled: "That's a balk, the pitcher doesn't have the ball." At this point I thought F1 was going to start crying ("Are you crying? There is no crying in baseball." I am sorry, I just couldn't resist throwing that in there at this point of the post. ) At this point F1 turned toward F6 and F6 throw the ball to F1. The OHC was now yelling for balk to be called against F1. I would not allow it. My partner explained to the OHC coach that the ball had never become live after the defensive conference therefore no pitching infraction had occured.

Tonight, MTD, Jr. was umpiring an 11U game in the same league and I went to watch him. He was BU for the game. The same play occured in his game except the ball initially became dead because F2 asked the PU for a timeout to talk with F1, F4, and F6. The PU and MTD, Jr. are both first year umpires and I don't think the PU was taken by suprise by the play. MTD, Jr., told the OHC that as long as the ball was dead no infraction had occured.

Between the game that I had and the game MTD, Jr., had, I have discussed this play with other umpires and we all agree that as long as the ball is dead no infraction can occur.


The following NFHS and MLB/OBR rules talk about when the pitcher is near the pitcher's plate without the ball.

NFHS R6-S2-A5: It is also a balk if a runner or runners are on base and the pitcher, while he is not touching the pitcher’s plate, makes any movement naturally associated with his pitch, or he places his feet on or astride the pitcher’s plate, or positions himself within approximately five feet of the pitcher’s plate without having the ball.

MLB/OBR R8.05(i): If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when the pitcher, without having the ball, stands on or astride the pitcher’s plate or while off the plate, he feints a pitch.

MLB/OBR R8.05 Comment: Umpires should bear in mind that the purpose of the balk rule is to prevent the pitcher from deliberately deceiving the base runner. If there is doubt in the umpire’s mind, the “intent” of the pitcher should govern. However, certain specifics should be borne in mind: (a) Straddling the pitcher’s rubber without the ball is to be interpreted as intent to deceive and ruled a balk.

MTD, Sr.

[socalblue1]

Mark,

The non-calls were all correct - no way to have a balk on a dead ball. Had the PU put the ball into play thinking F1 was in contact it would STILL not be a balk, as the ball could not have legally been made live.

Intent is exactly the same in all rule code (OBR, FED & NCAA). The actual location of F1 in relation to the rubber (Pitchers plate) may differer slightly (On or astride vs within 5ft, etc) but all have three requirements for a balk to be called:

1. Live ball
2. Runner(s) on base
3. F1 is on or astride the rubber without the ball

[mbyron]

I agree, good no-calls. Those defenses don't know how to run the hidden ball trick. They probably do it that way because they have had umpires who put the ball in play when it was held by a fielder, and then didn't know how to fix it.

[David B]

And as an umpire, I just make it hard for them to do anything like this, if F6 has the ball I'm standing there facing him and looking at him etc.,

That's why we always tell our young umpire, never take your eyes off the ball.

Always hard on PU because he also has to know where the ball is following a dead ball since he puts the ball in play.

Thanks
David

[papablue]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

...Had the PU put the ball into play thinking F1 was in contact it would STILL not be a balk, as the ball could not have legally been made live.

Respectfully disagree, socal. Granted, you do not want to make the ball live unless you are certain F1 is in possession of the ball while on the rubber, but if you happen to put it in play anyway when F1 toes the rubber, you still have live action. Now, if you discover that F1 doesn't have the ball, he should still get balked.

The Hidden Ball Trick can never work once time has been called. It's either going to be discovered while the ball is dead, or the pitcher is going to get balked once it's live.

John

[mbyron]

Wrong. The ball cannot be made live unless F1 has it and is on the rubber. If PU calls "Play!" by mistake, it is still not "really" live. Call time and fix it.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Wrong. The ball cannot be made live unless F1 has it and is on the rubber. If PU calls "Play!" by mistake, it is still not "really" live. Call time and fix it.

Agreed.

[Tim C]

PapaBlue is incorrect.

The ball cannot be made "live" without the pitcher having the ball and being in legal contact with the pitcher's plate.

Same under interpretations by NFHS, NCAA and OBR.

[papablue]

I stand corrected. Learned something new today.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Agreed.

Double agree. Just like Tim, with whom I agree and who agrees with me who agrees with Bob J.

Agreed?

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

NFHS R6-S2-A5: It is also a balk if a runner or runners are on base and the pitcher, while he is not touching the pitcher’s plate, makes any movement naturally associated with his pitch, or he places his feet on or astride the pitcher’s plate, or positions himself within approximately five feet of the pitcher’s plate without having the ball.

OK, this has got to be one of the best examples of FED's rule silliness. "Approximately" 5 feet??? Now how the hell am I gonna determine that? Do I haul out a yardstick--oops, that's 2 feet short--or measuring tape? Can they make it any LESS definitive?

[umpjong]

Originally Posted by UMP25

OK, this has got to be one of the best examples of FED's rule silliness. "Approximately" 5 feet??? Now how the hell am I gonna determine that? Do I haul out a yardstick--oops, that's 2 feet short--or measuring tape? Can they make it any LESS definitive?

This is worded this way because of fields with dirt infields.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by UMP25

OK, this has got to be one of the best examples of FED's rule silliness. "Approximately" 5 feet??? Now how the hell am I gonna determine that? Do I haul out a yardstick--oops, that's 2 feet short--or measuring tape? Can they make it any LESS definitive?

"Approximately" is good. If they only said 5 feet then you'd need the tape.
Approximately means you use your judgement and you have lots of leeway.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

After the defensive conference was over F1 took a position on the mound behind the pitcher's plate (PP) but did not engage the PP. F6 and F4 were jumping around second base but R1 remained in contact with second base. By the look on F1 face, I could tell that he did not want to engage the PP. Since F1 was not in contact with the PP I could not make the ball live.

Since there was TIME and F1 needs the ball on the pitcher's plate to make it live again IMO get the game moving and say something along the lines of

"Pitch get the ball and let's play"

In other words do not simply allow the defense to try something that can't be done and waste time.

Pete Booth

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by umpjong

This is worded this way because of fields with dirt infields.

How about saying simply the "mound," which would refer to the hill. It's a lot easier to determine if a pitcher's standing on the hill than if he's "approximately" 5 feet away from the rubber.